Air suspension for the SuperNova/International chassis

[Texas TC]

Like everyone else with an International chassis coach, I have been looking for a better suspension for the rear of the coach. I love this unit and plan to keep it for a long time. No problems in the drivers seat but the wife has never cared for the ride past mid-coach.

So, I drove the Nova down to SW International for them to take a look at the frame and suspension layout to see about getting shocks installed. The Specialty Equipment Manager said I should consider an aftermarket air suspension system complete with air compressor. Cost is a little under $4900.00 so I told them to order it. It is made by American Carrier Systems out of Fresno, CA. I looked at the system and feel good about the engineering. It comes with its own shock package so it kinda kills two birds with one stone. He is going to order it tomorrow and I will get it installed as soon as it arrives.

The technician that is going to install the system looked the Nova over from the underside completely. He did not see any complications that would keep the system from being installed, plenty of clearance room down there. I told him I wanted to add air horns later and he said that would not be a problem. I will most probably add them along the frame rail next to the air compressor so they are at the level of the cars. Should be real loud down there!

I will keep you all informed of the progress.

[galena]

That is good price for the amount of work and is there a specific item number for this package? Keep us posted on change out and your evaluation.

[Texas TC]

I will know more next week when the system arrives from California. Right now, it looks like I will get installation during the week of September 14-18. The brochure I downloaded from their website said it will be delivered completely assembled and should be installed within a day. Keeping my fingers crossed this will be a relatively inexpensive solution to all of our ride issues. SW International is really excited to be able to try this application on my coach. They have asked to put a "Air Ride by Southwest International" logo on my coach. I agreed if it were small and matched the decor of the Nova.

One of the benefits to this system is that it has a backup in case of an air leak or air failure. The leaf springs are attached to the air ride component so if air is lost, it simply reverts back to the leaf spring suspension but with the added benefit of the included shock package.

I asked about dislodging the air bags while using the leveling jacks and was told that their are limits built into the system that would keep this from occurring. I have heard of a few Dynamax coaches that have had issues where the airbags have become dislodged when using the jacks. This should not happen with this system.

I am really excited about trying this relatively inexpensive air ride suspension application on the International chassis. I will certainly report the results, good or bad, when the installation is complete. I am going to the Drag Races in Ennis Texas right after the work is complete and then to Arizona to visit the kids the first week in October. The second trip will give me a great opportunity to evaluate the results. The International Manager guaranteed me that if it works on the coach application like it has on some of the other trucks they have installed it on, my wife will be able to sleep comfortably on the rear bed while traveling down the road. (Don't want a discussion on safety issues here but she would love to be able to nap back there from time to time).

Much more information to follow!

[Kimbo]

TexasTC,

We highly recommend this suspension mod. We had the Superride 800 series air suspension system from American Carrier Equipment installed on our SuperNova in July from Middleton & Meads Co. in Baltimore, MD. We paid slightly under $6,000 when all was done which included the air compressor.

We are very happy with the ACE suspension and feel it improved the ride & dampened the road vibrations, bumps, and noise. It doesn't ride like a Class A with lots of air bags but we also didn't have that expectation. :0) Also, the air suspension leveled the rig for us. Our SuperNova had a slight lean since the driver's side is much heavier then the other side. (Due to slide, water, generator).

One item of note according to ACE - The Superide air suspension is an add-on unit that takes advantage of existing leaf spring suspensions. The Superide suspension performs like a full air ride and it has two added design advantages: it requires no changes in the vehicle's original suspension specifications and it has a built-in safety stop. If the air spring deflates, the vehicle will revert to its original leaf spring suspension.

We liked this feature and didn't want to mess with the leaf spring suspension. (We didn't like Jeff's mods where he had the leaf springs removed.)

We only had one slight problem after we picked up the rig. The wiring harness for the jack melted when the shop did the welding for the air bag install. Got it fixed at our dealer within a day and haven't had any problems with the leveling jacks & air bags.

I can try to post/mail pictures if interested.

Good Luck!

[Texas TC]

Thanks so much for your analysis. I looked at several systems before deciding on the ACE application. I, like you, really like the redundancy of having the original springs there in case of an air problem. I like the unit having its own shock package and I like the price vs. changing the entire rear carrier in order to put in International oem air suspension. I am glad to hear you like your system and now, more than ever, am looking forward to the installation next week.

I will alert the International technician about the wiring issues. When he did a survey of my frame, he mentioned that many of the wires that operate many systems on the coach are in that general area. I will try to get him to insulate them well while doing the welding.

[Texas TC]

Although I have only driven the Nova about 50 miles, I truly love the air ride suspension system (American Carrier Equipment Superride 800). This will be a short report and I will give my thoughts after our trip to Arizona in early October. For now, it is great. Like Kimbo, I have an error issue with the electric jacks. I will get it to the RV dealer on Monday. International said they would cover any costs. Total cost to install with tax was just under $5200.00.

I called my buddy JimBob and gave him a glowing report on the phone. Now he is considering bringing his coach to Dallas for the same system. (Good to talk with you JimBob and continue having a great trip).

My wife went on the test drive at the dealer and sat on the bed and on the sofa. She said the ride on the bed is now like the mid-coach sofa and the sofa is like riding in the front seats. (Yea, I really wanted her to be pleased with this upgrade).

More information to come after our longer trip next month.

[Texas TC]

I took the Nova in to Mc Clain's RV, my dealer, on Saturday. They had to adjust the magnet limit switches and re-set the level on the Power Gear system and it is good to go. There was no damage to the leveling system, only a reset and re-adjust. I am sure Southwest International will be glad to know this since they are paying for the fix.

I will pick the coach up on Tuesday and get ready for my boon docking trip to the drag races. I cannot wait to drive this thing some more. It took the rough part of I35E great when I was driving it home. There is some construction on the route I will be taking later this week and I am looking forward to see how well the air ride handles uneven and rough sections of the road. I am also looking forward to seeing if there is any change in the way it handles in windy conditions and around other high profile vehicles. As we owners all know, these things handle so well in those conditions. I am quite sure that there will be no adverse effects with the air ride but want to drive in those conditions to be assured.

[JimBob]

Jim Bob sends congratulations to his pal, Texas TC, on the birth of his new baby. The newborn weighs in at an impressive 26,900 pounds, and was born at Southwest International at Dallas Texas last week.

Way to go buddy- enjoy your new coach and have a safe trip to the Drags, and then out to Arizona....... Where's the decal pics?????

JimBob
08 Super Nova
Currently at Nappanee, Indiana

[Texas TC]

Here is the decal Southwest International provided for our Nova!

http://www.gsowners.com/attachments/photobucket/img_8727_828a213581c1e6b63173aa6259b7610e.jpg

[Texas TC]

I was at Southwest International today and spoke with the Manager of Special Equipment and the GM of the dealership. They are both really excited, as am I, about the installation of the air ride system on the International chassis. Special Equipment Manager, Aaron Redmon, said if anyone is interested in having the same system installed, or just has some questions about the system, he would be glad to help them out. He agreed for me to post his phone number for anyone interested, 214-689-1400 or 214-638-4685.

[nailerman]

:? Now you guys really have me up in the air, literally. Which do I want? New shocks or air ride. I had finally gotten my IH dealer on the right path and now I am throwing him a curve. It remains to be seen if they will do it or if ACS has someone in or near Richmond. I do not mind going to Balmer like our friend KIMBO did, but would rather go south this time of year.

I already have an air compressor and five gallon tank installed since I put in one of Hornblaster's Train Horns. (that's a lot of fun) Just trying to find out from Viair and ACS if this installation will do the job now.

[Texas TC]

I would really like to drive the International chassis with shocks to see the difference. From where I stand now, the air ride system is the only way to go. We did almost 700 miles from Texas to New Mexico on our first day out and another 400+ miles on the second day to the kids house in Arizona. What I noticed most about the new air ride system is the way it smooths out the dips and bumps in the road. No more jarring of the rear of the coach during these adverse road conditions. For the first time, there were no clothes off the hangers or throw pillows on the floor from off the bed. Although I would still like to find some better shocks for the front of the coach, I really don't think I need them now as much as before because the air system actually improves the ride in the drivers seat by not giving the bounce or cantilevering off the rear axle that I had experienced before adding the ACE system.

I was particularly curious about how it would handle in winds and around other high profile vehicles while now sitting on two really large air bags. The conclusion is PERFECT! As you may know, New Mexico and Arizona are known for high winds. I did not know the wind was blowing until we stopped for fuel.

My preliminary assessment of the system is that it is great and well worth the money if you plan, as I do, on keeping the coach for a long time. At 30,000 miles, mine just keeps running better and the new air system accentuates the driving experience.

[OffRoadRat]

Hi everyone, I am a new user to this site I have a 2008 Supernova. Like many of you I have spent a lot of money trying to improve the ride on my coach. My unit had no leaf springs on the rear so I had them built, I had King Shocks build shocks all around, and I went to the new Michelin single rear tire and Alcoa's wheels. All improved ride somewhat and the tires and wheel combo increased mileage and shortened braking distance. But the ride is still quite harsh. Since I have not seen a post since early October, I am wondering if some of you would update me on how you like your air ride after riding on it for awhile. Thank you.

[nailerman]

We have learned a lot from other owners and are moving forward to getting the Air Ride installed. I have found that Crenshaw Bodies here in Richmond used to be dealers for ACE and will be happy to do it for me. Wanted to get it done before a southern journey Feb. 14, but may not. We are looking forward to joining those of you who have done this vast improvement.

[Texas TC]

Still thrilled with the result from my air installation. There are two more ACE air suspension systems being installed on SuperNova's at Southwest International right now.

As you can see in another thread on this forum, Gulf Stream is now building their SuperNova coach on the 4400 chassis with air suspension, air drivers seat, and air brakes. They, too, have seen the need to calm down the bounce in the rear section of the coach.

I am glad I installed air and wish I had done it much earlier.

[nailerman]

Well you know my way is always a day late and a dollar short. When I mentioned this coming up and the Martinsburg's Ads to Cindy Hathaway, she did not even know about it. Also I email Martinsburg and did not even get a rise from them. Glad I did not buy from them.

But as soon as the budget agrees, the installation will be done. I am looking forward to it so I can go on and get some other things done too.

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[OffRoadRat]

Thanks for all the info. Speaking of brakes, anyone have trouble with their brakes. I do....especially when I am towing my 8000 lb trailer. Even with the trailers brakes set up to almost lock, the pads on my coach burn and then don't work well.

[Texas TC]

My parking brake broke when the coach was new but I have not had any problems stopping my coach with the Jeep Wrangler in tow. Mine is the smallest and lightest of all of the SuperNovas'. I weighed it full of fuel, water and gear and it only weighed 21,600. Even with the Jeep, I do not even get to my GVWR of 25,999 and not even close to the GCWR of 33,000.

I bought a suplimental brake system for the Jeep a couple of years ago and used it once. I carry it in the basement of the Nova just in case some officer wants to give me a hard time but I have not found that I need it for stoppping. I also carry the weight ticket for the coach with me for argument sake.

Your 36' coach with an 8,000 pound trailer is getting on up there so I could see you taxing the brake system a bit.

[johnf2000]

Thanks for all the info. Speaking of brakes, anyone have trouble with their brakes. I do....especially when I am towing my 8000 lb trailer. Even with the trailers brakes set up to almost lock, the pads on my coach burn and then don't work well.

I have a 28 foot race car trailer and have found similar problem on mine. I have the other 38 supernova which is sometimes parked next to yours at the rv repair center in sd. I have to say your wheel and tire combo looks really good. Does it help the performance? I am going to put the air ride on asap.

Have you done anything with the performance yet, such as program or chip for the motor?

[OffRoadRat]

The wheel and tire combo make look great, but only marginal benefit for the cost. I am extremely interested in the air bag set-up. If you do get it upgraded please let me know. The ride is the only real complaint other than with Gulfstream itself. I did put in software which helped quite a bit. I don't remember which one, but if you are interested, I can find my paperwork or look it up. Frank at SDRV installed it. Don

[johnf2000]

Hi Don, Thanks for the heads up on the Tires. I will let you know how the air bag works out. I agree with the "Gulfstream itself" Very interested in the software update. Any info would be appreciated. Would love to bring the hp up a little.

Did the road king shocks up front help the rebound, bouncing, issue on the front end?

John

[OffRoadRat]

My programmer is from TS Performance. I think their website is
TSPerformance.com. The shocks on the front helped quite a bit. But not on the rear. Even though the shock company is in Jacumba, I don't think they are good at setting the shocks up. Prior to reading about the rear air bags, I was going to take a trip to Oregon to a specialty motorhome shop that deals with suspension and especially King shocks. The have the ability to re-valve them. Are you going to have SDRV install the air bags or take it someplace else?

[johnf2000]

Thanks for the programer info. Re your King Shocks. I have two race car fabricators that built my race truck which valve shocks in El Cajon. Your RV King shock is in essence the same in concept as the racing King shocks. I can give you their number if you would like. Re the air bags. I havent decided who to have install it. I might have my crew chief at my office do the installation if its not too difficult.

[Texas TC]

I would like to have a part number on the front shocks to complete my suspension upgrade. The ACE air system has tamed the rear and I feel that a better set of front shocks would improve the front end ride even more. I have not been able to find any front shocks other than OEM so a part number and manufacturer would be a great help.

I have heard of others using the TS performance upgrade and I have never heard of any issues with it. I am waiting for my five year warranty on the engine to expire in May 2012 before I do any performance upgrades. I just don't want to do anything to void the International factory warranty.

[OffRoadRat]

To Texas TC. Regarding the Road King Shocks...I do not have the part number but if you call San Diego RV and ask for Frank tell what you need and he will get it for you. Just tell him you were referred by Don Mahoney. Their number is 619-561-3531.

To John: The shocks do look similar with close to the same name. King Shocks vs Road King. I too have King coil overs and King Bypass on my LS1 buggy, but while the King Shocks have a lot of tunability (doubt that is a word). The Road Kings only have 3 valving soft, medium, firm. If you find otherwise I would love to get my changed.

[B44D]

Cash in the 401k, spend the kids college fund, but you have to get an air-ride! I followed in TC Texas' footsteps and had SW International hook me up. Difference is night and day! I have a 2009 6373. The full slide, the generator, batteries, tanks, refrig, etc. are all on the driver's side. As a result, there was a 3 inch lean to that side. They installed an extra leaf spring in the back to level it out. I am heading to Crested Butte for spring break, hope the snow storms are over...I would hate to slide the smooth riding rig over the side!

[schmittm]

I have the TS Diesel programmer and it does make a difference. Also I just got my 6371 back from international for some warranty work and I had left the programmer on the engine. They noticed it and said nothing until I asked what they thought of it. They did not care and this shop said it would not void the warranty since it is not changing the PCM. The main thing it does is increase the fuel pressue at the injectors, so you are getting more fuel into the engine. More fuel at higher pressue equals more power.

The work that they did was replace fan clutch system because fan was not shutting off after a few miles. My last trip it took 100 miles to get the fan to turn off. They also replaced the turbo because of the squeeking (turbo farting) noise. The old turbo was not dirty, and the new turbo still does it a little. International said that this can happen. But driving home for 70 miles it seemed to run better and quiter, not as much engine noise or what sounds like valve lifters.
International has been great with their service, they did all work above under warranty along with another time changing gears in rear-end and updating PCM. You might want to check to make sure your PCM is up to date, take to international and they can update it.

[nailerman]

Our SN Model 6362 will be equipped in the next few weeks with ACE Air Ride System. Really looking forward to the improvement. Thanks everyone for the help. AMC :D

[pernsdorff]

I would like to see the suspension options done by Jeff too. Is that PDF that was mentioned in earlier posts available from jimbob posted somewhere?

[swalter67]

i have been viewing this topic for awhile ,decided to join ,finally. i have a 2008 gulfstram 6400 supernova, and was wondering why not anyone has considered the air suspension system that kelderman has to offer.?they make a system for the international chassis . it looks very similar to the system offered by ace . less than half the price ....? www.kelderman.com (http://www.kelderman.com)

[Texas TC]

I actually researched kelderman before going with the ACE system. I could not find anyone in my area of North Texas that would install the system. When I mentioned it to my local International dealer, they were not familiar with kelderman but had used the ACE system on several applications in the past and were very familiar with the installation so, that is the reason I went with American Carrier Equipment. I wish someone would try kelderman and give us an analysis. The systems are quite similar.

[Walldo]

I have researched Kelderman, they have a nice system, but the ACE system is designed to act as an air ride system and use the factory spring's as control arms, where the Kelderman adds another pivot point with its brackets and function as a secondary suspension. Kelderman is said to ride really nice but the ACE in my opinion is a better system, and plan to get the ACE system installed by Southwest International this summer shortly after I move to Texas..... 8)

[bou2]

Hello all - I was very happy to get to this site to review your comments and questions. I have just purchased a 2008 GS Ultra with only 9,500 miles when I picked the rig up just south of Dallas.

I've been driving motorhomes pulling boats a number of years and the Ultra handled well coming back to Los Angeles. I had airbags on my F350 with 11.5 foot camper and loved what they did.

Here is my current problem, I have a "hidden hitch" and drag my butt on even small to slightly moderate exits. My opinion is the hitch is 1.5" too low.

I would install an air bag system just to achieve the ride benefits you all have mentioned, but does anyone have other thoughts?

Thanks, Carl

[Nanaeve]

Well, we just returned from a 2000 mi trip to So. Colorado, No. Arizonia, with our 09 Endura on the International chassis and rear air suspension and love it! Sure does handle the roads better, the potholes and expansion strips seem alot less brutal than at first and it just seems more relaxed than before. I'm glad we did it and not surprised that GS is using a chassis with air suspension for the new International product. Anyone thinking of taking the step , do so if you plan on putting on the miles and you will enjoy the trip more. And, in passing, a question, has anyone had any dealings with Tony Suddon at GS, I've replaced batteries at his O.K. and have not been reimbursed as promised, is there someone else I should be dealing with this month?

[johnf2000]

I just installed the ACE air ride system. I went ahead and did the installation myself. It took 2 days with one person. We located the compressor, in between the frame rails, right behind the rear axel. All I can say is WOW! What a difference.

Previous to the installation, I enjoyed the coach, but did not enjoy the ride. On some HWY's 55 mph at best, while the noise level in the back was ridiculous. In the past year my refrigerator has been knocked out, cabinets, and trim falling off the walls. It was a miserable ride, tearing the coach up. When you would come to a bridge crossing, you would have to slow down below 55mph in some situations so the front end of the truck wouldn't bounce so high that it reached the limits on the extensions of the font shocks. Its amazing that Gulfstream would even have sold this unit with the leaf spring rear end. Go look under your coach the axel rides directly on rubber bump stops connected directly to the frame, no up-travel.

After the Installation of the ACE air ride system. The coach is now worth owning. You can cruise down the hwy at 75+ mph and not worry about the bumps coming ahead. The noise level in the back is reduced by at least 75%. The original rear suspension, the axel rides directly on the frame with a rubber bump stop between the axel and the frame with no shocks, just leaf springs. Every little tiny bump on the road is transfered directly to the coach. This also caused the front to bounce high going over bridges since the coach was pivoting directly on the rear frame. With the air ride system, the front does not bounce like a Tijuana Taxi over bumps and the vibrations are almost eliminated. You do get a little body roll, but not bad considering the stock unit could not have body roll since the axel has (0") free suspension up travel. The Coach still holds true going by big rigs and in the wind.

Previously, a 6 hour drive would leave me exhausted. I just finished a 16 hour trip and enjoyed every minute of it.

This is the answer to the supernova. I purchased this unit because I loved the cab, the layout of the coach, and the looks. But I hated the ride. I now really, really, like my super nova.

The ACE system is worth every penny. Very rarely can you buy a product and get incredible satisfaction from it. This is one of those items. Not to mention the guys that own ACE are very nice people. Company is American Carrier, ask for Phil 1-800-344-2174

[nailerman]

It is so great to hear all the good things about the ACE Air Ride. Our SN is sitting at Crenshaw's here in Richmond so they can start first think Monday and get her don. We have a trip planned to Bulls Gap and Limestone, TN on Wednesday and can't wait. I saw where Crenshaw got back their dealership with ACE also. Phil at ACE is a person who really helps his company do a good job. Wish Goofstream would do the same. :D

[johnf2000]

Hello all - I was very happy to get to this site to review your comments and questions. I have just purchased a 2008 GS Ultra with only 9,500 miles when I picked the rig up just south of Dallas.

I've been driving motorhomes pulling boats a number of years and the Ultra handled well coming back to Los Angeles. I had airbags on my F350 with 11.5 foot camper and loved what they did.

Here is my current problem, I have a "hidden hitch" and drag my butt on even small to slightly moderate exits. My opinion is the hitch is 1.5" too low.

I would install an air bag system just to achieve the ride benefits you all have mentioned, but does anyone have other thoughts?

Thanks, Carl

I had the same problem as you describe above.

The air ride will lift the rear of the coach. It will lift it approx 1-3" off from the axel to the rubber bump stops on the frame. Note that this is not like your air bags on your pick up truck which increase your spring rate. It is actually replacing the use of your leaf springs entirely. In the end, you will get a gain of rear hitch clearance.

To help the issue, I removed the metal triangular shaped skid at the bottom of the hidden hitch and replaced it with a strong metal wheel. I gained approx 3/4 inch clearance and made the scraping of the hitch a little easier with the roller wheel. You need to leave a certain amount sticking out below the hitch so that it takes the hit and not the ball mount on the trailer when you bottom out.

[nailerman]

Yep had to remove the "skid" Goofstream" "welded" on the Trailer Hitch on my 6362. I also put back a heavy duty steel wheel. The skid came off easily with the chewing gum weld Goofstream used. I had my guy weld the wheel mount back properly. Works fine.

This might be unnecessary coming out of my driveway since the air ride is supposed to raise the coach a little. The air ride is being installed as I write this and the SN will go to Tennessee on Wednesday.

How much drop to you use for the hitch since it is 23 Inches from the pavement? My boat trailer and utility trailer demand a lot less than "Bessie" supplies.

[michaelmangine]

johnf2000, how hard of an install was it and how much and were did you buy it thanks

[nailerman]

Yes johnf2000 I too would like to know how you could describe the ease with which you installed the ACE Air Ride on a 37 Foot SN.

My early 08 (07 International 4200) Model 6362 is not doing so well at the moment. Seems the rear Levelers had to be removed in order to get the unit into place. Looks like Goofstream may have put mine in an experimental location close behind the rear axle. On later models they must have moved them back.

I delivered the SN to Crenshaw Friday afternoon so that they could get an early start on Monday, yesterday. I figured two days, budgeted such and was assured. When I was down there a couple of hours ago, pieces were everywhere. Five jacks and stands were holding sections and the RV in the air. I was told that the levelers had to come out to get the ACE Unit in place. I was hoping to have the SN back tonight to go on business to TN. That is the reason I own an RV. Further, I have air already in the SN and all that was need was to plumb tubing to the rear. I heard all the accolades on how easy the installation was going to be and that I would really love it. Right now all I can say is "disappointment."

Now if they get it done this week, I cannot pick it up until Monday as I will not return until then and Crenshaws is not open on Saturday.
:(

[Texas TC]

Sorry for your unforeseen complications. My very, very early 2008 went on without a hitch. Mine is a 6331 so there might be a difference in the positioning of the levelers but I sure don't know why. Mine was held up by jack stands at International while the installation was going on. It made me a little nervous but the technicians seemed to be fine with it.

I don't see why your installers did not just reposition the levelers and continue the installation. The good thing about these Power Gear levelers are they are electric, no hydraulics to reroute, just a few wires.

I was a little nervous when you had the scheduled work backing up to your business trip. Anytime I have major work done, it always seems to take a little longer than anticipated. With mine, the work went on within the scheduled amount of time but the equipment came in two seperate shipments which threw them a day late getting started. There always seems to be something.

Good luck with getting the equipment installed. If yours rides and drives like mine, you will soon forget about the hassle you had getting the installation done. You will have a hard time getting the smile off your face long enough to be frustrated!

[nailerman]

I scheduled the installation a month ago when the kit arrived. Fortunately the nature of my business is that when a customer or potential says jump I am one of the few left that will. With today's economy, buyers are few and far between have been for quite a while. Crenshaws fortunately for them is very busy and I had to pick a time. Everything just hit at once. I heard everyone on here say two days or less, so I naturally estimated two days. I was supposed to be in Tennessee last week before the work hence plenty of room; but the floods got in the way. We are driving my Murano instead. It is that I would rather travel by RV and am excited to try the air ride.

Crenshaws did not look at the job before hand, though I took t"Bessie" to them early on. So the pressure is on them. I am anxious to see what their meter will say. Also Crenshaws used to be and just reinstated their being a dealer for ACE.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Will advise about the smile.

[cd6400]

Hi folks. Amongst the great discussion on the air ride systems, I noticed that some of you mentioned the position and subsequent dragging of the "skid bump" welded to the bottom of the hitch. I too am concerned about the limited amount of terrain clearance design into the RV. Doesn't seem that much variance in road surface is allowed. I noticed that the when sighting between the bottom of the skid bump and bottom of the rear tires the foot of the aft most rear leveling jack is right along that sight line meaning that the height or position of the skid bump is also set to prevent hitting the leveling jack when going over transitions. I'd be careful when changing the skid bump's location or height or you might encounter bigger problems. Obviously a larger wheel will eliminate that concern but will also reduce your ground clearance.

[nailerman]

We banged our rear levelers when we dropped into a mud puddle from pavement in Savannah, GA. Everything has stayed fine. I am pretty sure that when the levelers are reinstalled, they will go back very close to were they were. It is all the cutting I do not like. I built machinery for a living for 30 years. I will check with a laser line when I get it to make sure. My driveway is my most difficult traverse.

Since you are in Leonardtown and I keep a boat across the Potomac in the Yeocomico, I need a question to be answered. Have the city docks in Leonardtown been rebuilt? We have been wanting to cruise over, but this has been a hold up. Not really an RV subject, but a need for knowledge.

Thanks for the heads up.

[johnf2000]

johnf2000, how hard of an install was it and how much and were did you buy it thanks

The unit comes from American Carrier, ask for Phil 1-800-344-2174

The Install took 2 days with one mechanic. As with any heavy equipment, things are big, if you are not use to working with them it can slow you down. But in general the install went smooth. There is cutting and welding involved, but not very technical, just big and heavy. With two people on the job, it is much easier. I noticed issues, on this forum, of relocating the jacks. My install is on a 2008 38 foot supernova. I would imagine that depending on the model the area for install will be a little different.

Regardless if it takes 2-3 days or even 4. The air ride is the only way to own a SN. The difference is HUGE. you will like it

[nailerman]

Have finally been advised that "Bessie" is ready. Can't get it until Monday. But a caveat was included that a spring was bad in the left front end. Taking it to IH right after pick up. At least I will be doing it with the air ride in place.

Was wondering which front end is in our SN. The light or the heavy. If it is the light it is right up to the max according to being weighed.

[Texas TC]

According to the ISIS report on my Nova, the springs are component number 003ADB; "Parabolic, Taper Leaf, 10000-lb capacity with shock absorbers" and, yes, they are almost at capacity. With a full load of fuel and a loaded coach on my 6331 mine scaled at 9180 lb on the front axle.

Looking further, the front axle is an International I-100SG which also carries a rating of 10000 lb.

The rear suspension on my coach is rated at 18500 lb for the springs and 17500 lb for the axle. I have a lot of excess capacity back there since I weighed on the scale full of fuel, water, folks, and gear at 12420 lb.

Thus far, I have had no issues with springs on either end.

Good luck on getting the repairs done and enjoy your new ride!

[nailerman]

On my 6362, the weight on the front axle is 8,460 lbs. and rear axle is 13,200 lbs. This is full fuel (72 gallons), no water in any tank and moderately loaded for travel. Plan on weighing with water tank up and traveling necessities to see where I am. Though I do not think I have ever approached gross on either axle, even with my fat ass in the cab. Usually take partial water except to known dry camping.

As to the front left spring, could be a flaw in the spring itself. This happens. I just hope IH will cover under warranty, though I have Good Sam Extended Coverage as well.

Really looking forward to coming on here Monday and saying nothing but good about the Air Ride. Possible trip to Ontario week after next. Good way to break it in.

[Texas TC]

nailerman,

Does your coach have the single fuel tank? I have only seen two that had the 70 gallon capacity and that was way back when I first ordered my coach . They told me when I ordered my coach that it would have a single tank with 70 gallon capacity but when it arrived, it had dual 70 gallon tanks. I am really glad it does for the distance I can travel between fuel stops.

Ironically, the reasoning for telling me that I could only have a single tank was not to overload the front springs and axle. I guess somewhere in the chassis ordering and delivery process, they figured that the weight of the extra fuel tank did not exceed the capacity of the axle and springs.

Do you know the manufacture date of your chassis? Mine was ordered by GS on 9/22/06 build date was 2/2/2007 and it was delivered to GS on 3/30/07. I received my coach completed at the end of May 2007.

[nailerman]

Yep a Single 70 gallon Fuel Tank.

IH Certificate of Origin Date is 11/17/2006 and Goofstream's is 02/20/2007. The dealer got it April 7, 2007. I got Bessie May 9, 2008.

[nailerman]

:? I have been so busy getting ready for the biggest machinery show we do that I have not really thought too much about how the air ride turned out.

The ride is much improved. It is a real difference, but I have not had too many miles to fully appreciate it. I know I will.

A couple of problems have arisen though. Now in Forth gear between 35 and 42 MPH, the transmission or drive line is raising Cain. Also while doing the conversion, Crenshaw found that the leaf springs on the left front have gone flat. IH is going to be working on that Monday. But I am just out of warrantee. Now we will see how good the Good Sam Extended Warrantee is. I am going to have IH inspect the drive line as well. The last thing is that there is a slow leak causing the air compressor to come on more than I would expect. The air leaks out of the system sitting in the driveway. I am glad I have a manual cut off switch for the compressor. Will be putting a relay in that line with a toggle switch and a pilot light as well to be sure the compressor does not kill the chassis batteries. I am going to try to get underneath to have a look on Sunday and spray soapy water on the new connections. I already had a five gallon air tank on board and added a 2.5 in the back so as not to tax the compressor. But if a fitting is not tight, there goes the air.

Once I get it smoothed out, I think the change will be worth the investment.

[Texas TC]

The ACE suspension is not a closed air system and adds air to the bags and releases air from the system as required to maintain the air ride. My compressor is wired to the ignition switch. It does, by design, leak down when the ignition is turned off (like on my storage pad) but quickly fills and shuts off when I turn on the switch to start the coach.

Good luck with your other issues. I hope your extended warranty works out for you. I have used my Interstate Star extended warranty several times including at the International dealer and have had great success.

[nailerman]

Well we got there. The ACE Air Ride is a lot better. Replacing the Flat Spring set in the front end improved that also. I am beside myself. These ACE Units should have been on the vehicle from the start.

Only concern is that when Crenshaw reinstalled the levelers, one is not square with the coach, so back it goes. Oh well!

I am now trying to find somewhere to get a custom switch panel made for the blank knockout in the dash. Any thoughts.

[Texas TC]

I was worrying about you since you had not posted for a few days. Glad you got your spring issue resolved. Hopefully, the jack issue is a simple adjustment. Those things should bolt on so the "fix" should be quick and simple.

The more you drive with the ACE, the more you will appreciate it. I agree that some sort of air suspension should have come from GS. I told one of the VP's that and he said they were trying to keep the price point low. I figured buying in quantity, the price to add air would not have been that out of line. Besides, when you spend this much on a coach, what's a few thousand more to get it right?

Speaking of switches. I have thought several times over the years that I wish the light switches and heated mirror switch was on the right side where we have a blank. It would be much more accessible it seems to me than fumbling around under the steering wheel searching for the right switch. I invariably change the dash lighting rather than turning the lights on/off or heating the mirrors. I have not seen any custom switches or housings for our units. Let us know if you come up with something. I might be interested also.

[steve.k]

I'm new to this site and also bought a 08 supernova last spring,it had 3000 miles on it when we got it.Are furthest trip so far was from Red Deer area to Vancouver BC we did notice the ride was a little bumpier as the water tank got lower,soI to would be interested in the Ace Suspension,Ithink that would really help this unit,we received alot of copliments on our rig as not many are in this area yet,I beleive it is the 6331 platform.Also have any of you chipped the engines I would like to have a little extra as we do pull a 18ft enclosed trailer with Quads and bikes.The power is not to bad when not towing as I did out pull the Greyhounds on the Coquihalla pass which is about a 10 mile pull!

[steve.k]

I was wrong the floor plan is 6372

[Texas TC]

I do have the 6331 and only pull a 2007 2 door Jeep Wrangler so I have not seen the absolute need for any additional power. Mine pulls all the hills around Flagstaff Arizona just fine and that is the only hills I have had need to pull. Our kids live in Arizona so we go that way quite often.

Below is the link to a power booster unit that several folks have tried and seem to like:

http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/ts-pe ... ce/mp8.htm (http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/ts-performance/mp8.htm)

[Nanaeve]

After having some issues with "turbo farts" on our 3 week trip to No. Arizonia and So. Colorado to see the cliff dwellings, while International was looking it over they updated the engine controller with Rev 124 or 125, from 74. Where was all the power that was released. My wife followed me home, about 45 miles, she said I was driving like a sportscar and the difference is night and day. It really moves now. I too was thinking about a chip, but the way it now performs has changed my mind. Now, if my 6 month old chassis batteries would hold a charge well enough to start the unit longer then 2 days I'd be happy. I'm going to take them back, something has happened as they started it up fine after a 3 month sitting,but now I have to run a battery charger from the generator to get them to start the unit. Any ideas?

[kart74]

We have had our Supernova since the Endura we had was in Nappannee for the tornado a couple years back. Hence no more Endura. Now I have read about everyone's rough ride and everything but hasn't anyone had anything fall apart? My unit rides so hard the shower door is constantly breaking, all the screws around the cap sheared off, the bedroom tv fell inside the cabinet, the back end caps around the sides have both cracked, I have to keep towels under the plate in the microwave and under the covers on the stove or they bounce off on the floor, the mirrors in the bedroom closet doors are coming apart and on and on. Did any of you have these issues before putting on the air ride? I did have International install shocks in the rear to no avail. Would the air ride actually help me or do I have the unit from you know where? It is going to cost Gulfstream more money to keep repairing it than replacing it. Where around Michigan could I get these air bags put on? Did International or Gulfstream contribute to the cost being they know it was a problem or they wouldn't have beefed up the chassis and added the bags to the new models. I need help badly. My hubby had a stroke a year ago so all this stuff has fallen on my shoulders to figure out. All he says is go take and put it on Gulfstream's front porch and be done with it.

So any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all,

Janice

[Texas TC]

Sorry to hear about your husbands stroke. I seem to remember following your story when you posted a few years ago about your coach being destroyed during the storms in Napanee.

I never had anything break in the rear of the coach but the bounce and jar was severe. I paid for the installation of my ACE suspension. GS management originally did not order the more expensive air ride chassis for the SuperNova or Endura with the International platform due to cost considerations. They were shooting for a lower price point to the customer on a class 6 chassis and went with the spring assembly for the rear suspension. That is what one of the VP's told me.

You will certainly enjoy the ride and drive of your coach if you install the air suspension system. I suggest you call the manufacturer of the air equipment and ask if there is an installer in your area. I think you will be pleased with the results if you decide to have it installed. Their information follows:

American Carrier Equipment, Inc.
2285 E. Date Ave., Fresno, CA. 93706
1-800-344-2174; 559/442-1500

[kart74]

Thanks Texas TC. I love the coach but I can't take it being out of commission for months at a time after a trip just fix the stuff that jarred loose. Even though people on here have complained about a bad ride, no one has said anything about their coach coming apart:0. I guess my biggest thing is that Gulfstream has admitted there was a problem by now adding the air suspension, so how about giving us first buyers a break and chip in for the fix? OK, so I lost my head there for a minute. Thanks for the info and I will contact them to see if there is someplace around here that can do it hopefully.

Thanks again,

Janice

[nailerman]

Kart74 I wish I good say that your wish is my command, but no. Goofstream is hard to move and though I now have good contact, I just go ahead and take care of the problem myself. There ex dealer here in Richmond is as crooked as the day is long. They will sell anything, but service is not in the game plan. Now the nearest Goofstream Dealer to me is on Eastern Shore in Salisbury, MD.

Anyway we just did over 1000 miles into southern New Jersey and north Central PA. The ACE Air Ride is fantastic. You should get a ride in an SN so equipped. It does not take but so long to do just fine someone who is well versed to the installation. Mary drives our 6362 as much as I do and she really is happy. The back end is a little mushier, but who cares. Like Texas TC says you can cruise right on with the air ride.

One point we are having done this week is to Enduratape the front Roof Seam on the coach. It has started leaking. :)

[Texas TC]

nailerman,

Glad to hear you are finally on the road with your air suspension system and have had a chance to really check it out. I agree the rear feels somewhat mushier, but, I have not lost any of the handling especially with crosswinds and around other high profile vehicles so I think the "feel" is just the difference in air vs. springs. I was a bit concerned when I first installed my system because of the "feel" but quickly found that the handling had not changed.

I have lost count as to how many of these ACE systems we have around the country now but the number is surely growing. I know my International dealer has installed three or four.

As for your leak issue, the joint at the cap and roof is suspect on all class C's and ours is certainly vulnerable. I had a leak there the first year and since then, I have a Seal Tech test done annually and the dealer replaces any sealant the has deteriorated or shrunk in the hot Texas sun. The test costs about $90 and the "fixes" usually get me up to about $300. I have just decided that is a preventive maintenance cost and expect to spend it every spring.

Happy motoring and safe travels.

[nailerman]

Thanks for the heads up on the Seal Tech Test. Bessie is going to RV Service of VA tomorrow for a few other snags I cannot do, and I definitely will talk to them since they have a unit.

Just to run this by you, I found an LED Unit that might replace the chintzy Hella tail light assemblies in the back which collect dirt and go through lamps. I have installed more LED turn signals and brake lights on the rear, but this LED unit has brake, turn and back up and might just work. Will advise when I take measurements.

Also working on custom control panel. Have some switches and pilot lights I am playing with. Trying to decide to go aluminum or plastic. Right now aluminum is winning.

Will advise.

[kart74]

Well, after many phone calls down to ACE and to southwest international I think we may have it. The international dealers here in Michigan won't touch it but referred me to another place. They said they have done them before, hurray! Aaron at southwest remembers you Texas TC:) So tell me Texas TC and Nailerman, International chipped in on the cost right??????? I'll have to give Tony Suddon at Gulfstream (great guy to work with) a buzz. Being we are now refixing things that have come apart from the jarring of the ride maybe he will have pity on me. By the way, my unit is the one with the two couches in it. Did they discontinue that model? It was perfect for us. I see a "coming soon" on a new unit but don't have a clue what it is.

[Texas TC]

My air suspension system by ACE cost a bit over $5000.00 installed with Texas sales tax included. I paid for it in full without any subsidy from Gulf Stream or International.

[Nanaeve]

I paid $5200 Tax included and had ACE here in California install it. I'm reminded of an old saying from my military days, "If Uncle Sam (GulfStream) had wanted you to have something, they would have issued it to you in the first place." I don't think that they GS are going to touch that as they would open a flood gate from those of us who paid for it ourselves. We all have to have a dream!

[nailerman]

I never figure that a manufacturer is going to get involved in a product after delivery. Goofstream was no different. But when one does, it is a very pleasant surprise and reminds us of who is a good supplier. TRUX just replaced two signal lights I put on "Bessie", no questions asked. As I said above, I just fix it. I want "Bessie" ready to go when I do.

For Texas TC. I have found in the IH Manual that I bought, a picture showing extra rocker switches in a panel that replaces a blank. As soon as I get to IH, I will pass along it number. I doubt they will have one so I can see if it will suit. Sure would save a lot of artistic work. Should we move this to another string?

[Texas TC]

Probably should start a thread on switch changes for the International chassis.

As for the manufacturer getting involved with design issues after the sale, I agree it is extremely rare. However, those of us who were the first buyers of the SuperNova did get International/Gulf Stream to pay for the change out of our rear drive gears. They came with 6.19 which were way too low for the RV application. They paid, according to the bill I saw on mine, over $2500.00 to change the gears to the now standard 5.29 and reset the ECM to the new ratio. So, it can happen, just not very often.

[kart74]

I just talked to the customer service rep from Navistar. He was very nice and spent alot of time looking into the issue but the bottom line was that International hasn't made a retro fix and they wouldn't contribute to an aftermarket. Which is what I thought they would say. I guess I am just flustered. You take the coach out for four days and it's in repair for 5 months. Out of two years if we have had it to use, weather wise and service wise, 4 or 5 months it would be stretching it. I remember Cindy Hathaway from Gulfstream telling me the first time that when they took it for a ride they felt it was within manufacturers specs. I guess that means it only falls apart every other trip. We still have to get the paint job redone around the cab where all the screws sheared off. Live and learn, or maybe not. Maybe the Endura was really the test and then we went and bought another one.

[Texas TC]

I know it is frustrating but I look at it as a cost of owning a RV. I know owners of all makes and models and all have some issues with their coach no matter how much or how little they paid for it.

I really did not want to spend over five grand to add the air suspension to the SuperNova but it was worth every penny. I had a Kodiak chassis coach before the International and it was terrible to drive. I sold it to a friend with all the caveats and spent a lot of time telling him what I did not like about the coach. It was mostly the handling in crosswinds and around other high profile vehicles. When I drove the class 6 International chassis and it handled so well, I was sold on the spot and ordered one that cold day in February of 2007.

Most folks who love their Senaca's and other Kodiak chassis coaches have spent as much or more in an attempt to improve handling than I spent on my air suspension and still do not have the hauling or towing capacity that we have with the class 6.

I wish you much luck in getting some assistance in the price of the air suspension but I do not hold out much hope. I do know that if you go ahead and have it installed, you will stop a lot, if not all, of the breakage problems you are experiencing due to the harsh bounce/jar in the rear of the coach caused by the spring only suspension.

As I have mentioned before, this is a common platform for other applications offered by Navistar (ever ride in the rear of a school bus?). Gulf Stream made a conscious/incompetent decision to use this platform on a RV for the sole purpose of cost containment. I am just thankful I found a reasonably priced solution to the problem.

Good luck!

[kart74]

Texas TC you are awesome. You have been so helpful. Now I am just waiting for the guy from All Type to get back with me after he talks to Norm at American Carrier and Aaron at Southwest International. He did say they have done similar ones before which makes me hopeful. Too bad all the International guys aren't offering it like the one in Texas. Aaron from Houston couldn't figure out why I didn't want to come there, the weather is in the 90's. I told him it was here too. He said we don't have mosquitos and I said I know but you have snakes and spiders:) Nice man, thanks for giving me his contact info.

[Nanaeve]

I think this is just the reason this forum was created , to have a place to share info on our rigs and help each other out. I am greatful for all the hints and ideas that have been shared here. I'm getting used to our ACE suspension and still get "excited" when it seems to have greater roll than it did, but I think I just need to get used to it.

[ghamblen]

I think this is just the reason this forum was created , to have a place to share info on our rigs and help each other out. I am greatful for all the hints and ideas that have been shared here. I'm getting used to our ACE suspension and still get "excited" when it seems to have greater roll than it did, but I think I just need to get used to it.

If you feel the roll is excessive you might take it to a diesel truck repair shop. On the farm we converted a semi tractor truck into a grain truck with a 18 foot aluminum grain bed. The first time we went around a corner with a full load of corn we thought it was going to turn over because of excessive roll. We took it to a diesel truck repair center and they changed the valving on the air bag system. It now goes around a corner with a full load of corn with very little roll.

[cd6400]

Was under my 6400 today after a 1400 mile trip just to poke around. When looking around the rear springs and suspension, I noticed that above the spring pack there is a rubber snubber attached to the frame extending down to the apring pack. I believe it is there to serve as "final defense" against frame/spring contact during severe loading. What I noticed though is zero separation between the rubber snubber and the top of the leaf spring pack meaning that there is very little flex allowed by the spring. This would also explain why the most insignificant bump in the road results in a "shock" to the coach and a jarring ride. Anyone else have this situation? Wonder why an airbag system couldn't be installed between the spring and the frame to cushion the ride vs systems such as the ACE design? That was the approach used on my pickup...

[Texas TC]

I'll give it a try to answer your question as best I can. I wondered the same thing before researching remedies to the rough/jarring ride caused by the spring only suspension system on the International chassis.

In my experience with traditional air bags, they are typically used to enhance the leveling of a RV/ truck due to adding weight to the vehicle. They do not, in my experience and opinion, add any cushioning value to the suspension. They are typically smaller and have low to high air psi capacity but not much volume. They also are used to "jack up" or raise the rear of the vehicle

The ACE and other industrial type air systems that are typically used on medium and heavy duty truck applications are an open system. They have a large volume in each bag, a valve system that managers the air for each bag determined by the road conditions and the ability to allow air to escape and be replenished as needed at the vehicle proceeds down the road. Although there may be an inch or two rise in the rear of the coach, the air bag systems are not intended for this purpose and cannot be used for suspension lift.

I do not know of anyone who has tried using traditional RV type air bags on the International chassis. I have been told that they will actually accentuate the rough/jarring ride by both truck and RV dealers due to the amount of air it would take to offset the traditional suspension with the air bag application. It would be a much less expensive option if someone wants to give it a try and report the results back to us. I know there is a lot of interest here.

[johnf2000]

Was under my 6400 today after a 1400 mile trip just to poke around. When looking around the rear springs and suspension, I noticed that above the spring pack there is a rubber snubber attached to the frame extending down to the apring pack. I believe it is there to serve as "final defense" against frame/spring contact during severe loading. What I noticed though is zero separation between the rubber snubber and the top of the leaf spring pack meaning that there is very little flex allowed by the spring. This would also explain why the most insignificant bump in the road results in a "shock" to the coach and a jarring ride. Anyone else have this situation? Wonder why an airbag system couldn't be installed between the spring and the frame to cushion the ride vs systems such as the ACE design? That was the approach used on my pickup...

The chassis is designed to ride on the rubber bump stops you are referring to as part of the suspension. There is no separation between the leaf springs and the rubber bump stops at static ride height. And yes that is why even the road markers on the road will rattle a supernova. The air bag addition you are referring to as in a pick up truck would operate different than the ace system. It would add spring rate to youre existing problem. The ace system turns your leaf springs into swing arms in which the air bags are the springs and the leafs are simply the swing arm or trailing arm for the air bags. So your leaf spring rate does not come into play. This is what gives you the soft cushy air ride feel from an rv. As with a pick up truck if you pump up your air bags in between the leaf springs it simply makes the truck ride stiffer and harder. Just the opposite with the ace system.

[CraigH]

I have a 2010 Super Nova 6400 and am considering the ACE suspension. I think the 6400 is a bit heavier than some of the other models and for that reason I am wondering if anyone else with a 6400 has made the modification.

Any feedback would be great!

[Texas TC]

I am almost certain that Southwest International installed the ACE Superide 800 system on a 6400. You are welcome to call the Specialty Equipment Manager, Aaron Redmond, at Southwest International, 214-689-1400 and ask him about the details.

I am now going to use my air tank, finally, for another purpose. I ordered an air horn through Amazon.com and will be installing it in about a week.

I am sure you will like the air suspension if you give it a try. It has, by far, exceeded my expectations and it smooths out the ride substantially.

Good luck!

[kart74]

I need help. I have talked to Southwest International and Aaron is more than willing to help whoever I can find to install the Superide system on our Supernova. The same with Phil at Ace, he has been more than accomodating with emailing pictures . My problem is that the only place I've been able to find in my area that will install is All Type Truck Repair. I have been talking with them for a couple months now and they are so busy that I usually don't even get a call back from anyone. Does anyone have any suggestions and Texas TC as much as I would love to come down there, I just can't right now:). Maybe I'll give Aaron another call and see if MAYBE he has heard of someone else installing? If I haven't said it before, all of you on here are the bomb. You all are so helpful and friendly which is so nice in today's world.

[Nanaeve]

Have you tried calling ACE directly to see where they have shipped suspensions to , they may have someone in your area that has done installations before. I had them do it as I live in NorCal and they were 2 hrs away. JKust a thought.

[kart74]

Yahoooooo! Finally found someone to do an install. Cummins Bridgeway just a couple miles from the house will intall it. It will be their first but are going to work with Aaron down at Southwest International and Phil at American Carrier. I ordered the unit and air kit and had it shipped to them. So, if anyone in Michigan is looking to have one installed, stand by and I will let u know how it goes! Shipping takes about three days and Cummins figures about 10 hours of labor to install.

Janice

I am so excited:)

[nailerman]

Way to go. I would not trade my ACE Air Ride for anything. Just be sure that everything is done properly.

While under there check the drive line from tranny to rear end. ON my 6362 the yoke at the transmission failed. I cannot say this is because of the Air Ride installation. The yoke could have been installed by IH on Monday morning or Friday Afternoon.

It is worth a look and to check because Good Sam Extended Warranty strikes again and will not cover the damage. We were honest and said that a bolt had come loose and was told not approved. Had to be a part failure. Seems to me this was if not torqued properly. I found it when the tranny started leaking fluid.

Good luck with the Air Ride. It is quite an improvement.

[Walldo]

Hey Texas TC, Looks like you have had the air suspension for a year now, what is your likes and dislikes, any problems, how many miles have you put on it, and would you do it again? Was it worth the money? Thanks, Walldo

[nailerman]

We have had out ACE Air Ride since May and have recently done a round trip to Canada and just last week to Myrtle Beach, SC.

I built machinery for a living and still sell it and I believe this Air Ride by ACE is great. Wife and I really see a difference. Now we want to put the right shocks in the front to replace the OEM to control its porpoising at times.

Just make sure you get a good installer.

[Texas TC]

My solenoid went out the first week after installation, International replaced the original with a Square D unit and I have not had any issues of any kind since then. I have put 12,000 miles on the system and only wished I had installed the ACE system when I purchased the SuperNova.

You probably read that I recently added a air horn to the coach since I now have a compressor on board (I believe Nailerman was the first to have an air horn added).

I highly recommend the installation of the air suspension system to anyone who owns the International chassis.

Nailerman;

Let me know if you find some good shocks. I have been thinking about replacing my original shocks since before I added the air system.

[kart74]

An update on our ACE installation. I guess there was a bulletin in the box that said "Installation may require an additional air supplier fitting and/or additional leef spring". Well, guess what. My coach leaned after installation and needs the second air supplier fitting and another leef spring. Did anyone else run into these problems? They couldn't put the air compressor on the left side in front of axle compartment as my black and grey tank stuff is over there. In fact most of the left side is mechanicals of some kind. So they put it in the rear right side. Did you know that the compressors need to be ventilated so they get outside air? Well, now we had to add venting. Then it said to run battery cable from compressor to house batteries. No cable provided. They took pics of each step so I could show you all and they could show ACE and Southwest International. Please tell me I don't own the only Supernova that has decided to be a pain in the backside:)

[Texas TC]

My 6331 model allowed for the compressor to be installed on the frame behind the propane tank. You can see it when you open that bay door. In fact, they mounted an air gauge right behind the propane tank along with a hose and fitting to fill the tank in case the motor on the compressor failed.

That location is also very close to the chassis and coach batteries. Southwest wired mine to the chassis batteries and it comes on when I turn on the ignition switch. My installation was not the first for Southwest International. Aaron Redmon, their specialty equipment manager, recommended the ACE system since he and his employees were familiar with the installation.

I do not have any lean issues nor did I require additional springs.

Sorry you have had so many issues with your installation. Mine was smooth as it could be. The only delay I had was that the compressor and the ACE air bags came in on two shipments on two different days. Everything else went well.

[Texas TC]

The following link should take you to pictures of my installation. The second picture shows my compressor and air tank mounted on the frame behind the propane tank and very close to all the batteries:

viewtopic.php?t=1866 (http://www.gsowners.com/viewtopic.php?t=1866)

[kart74]

Got a call from Cummins today that the motorhome was done. They told me it was an additional $2200 for parts, I had already paid for the the stuff from ACE, and 68 hours of labor at $100 an hour. He said they know they quoted me 10 hours labor because that's what ACE and Southwest International said it should take. So they want me to pay an additional $10,000! I am beside myself. I should have let the darn thing bang itself apart I guess cause I sure don't have an extra $10 grand laying around. My husband is going to kill me.

Janice

[Texas TC]

All I can say is WOW!

I am a total loss as to why your coach needed any additional work and certainly not 68 hours of labor. If they did not tell you about the additional charges prior to doing the work, I might suggest getting an attorney involved. Everyone else has been in the 5-6 thousand dollar range for parts and installation of the ACE system. I certainly do not think you should have to pay for their inefficiencies.

Good luck!

[B44D]

I'm with Texas TC, no way they should charge that. You should not pay for their learning curve if they did not know what they were doing. There are plenty of comp's to use. Have them call Southwest International in Dallas.

[kart74]

I told them numerous times to talk to Aaron at Southwest International or the guy from ACE. I did talk to him yesterday and he was flabbergasted. I told him they ran 30' of battery cable at $20 a ft. He said all it needed was 9 guage wire? I am really stressed as I am going there after work to try and get things straightened out. There is no way when you budget $6,000 plus a few incidentals to come up with a total of $13,000. The guy from ACE wants me to send him a print out of what they installed over what he sent. No one else had a leaning problem after installation and had to have another leef spring put on? I can't figure that out. We do have the 37' which I don't think they offer anymore, but the 6400 is 40' and I don't remember anyone saying they had this problem. It would have been cheaper to go down and see Texas TC and Aaron!

[Walldo]

Hope it all works out, I talked with Aaron and he mentioned that if the coach had a lean after installation it would be another $550.00 to rebulid the spring pack. Because mine has a lean as it sits now. Good Luck, and again I hope it all works out for the best. Walldo

[kart74]

Thanks Walldo. That price Aaron gave you helps me out too. I can use that when I talk to them today. Keep your fingers crossed!

[cd6400]

I'm strongly considering having the ACE system installed next year on my 6400. Not sure I understand why the coach would have a lean after the ACE is installed if it didn't have one before installation.... any thoughts?

[Texas TC]

If properly installed, I cannot see any reason for a lean in the stance of the coach. Mine will lean more than it did before when parked on the side of a hill with the air bags deflated. However, when active and air bags full, the ACE system levels the coach and keeps it level while in operation.

I really hope kart74 gets their coach back and at a reasonable price. That whole issue they have experienced would be a nightmare. I would suggest that anyone who installs an ACE air suspension system to please find a reputable installer who knows what they are doing. It should take about 10 hours to install and their should not be any surprises when it is finished. Anyone within driving distance of Dallas, I highly recommend Southwest International. They have installed many of these systems on SuperNova's and other mid-sized trucks and they very good and efficient in the installation. There are N0 surprises when you deal with Aaron at Southwest.

[Nanaeve]

Seems to me that this International Shop was looking for A CASH COW! My unit was installed by ACE in California, they had never installed one in our style coach, but they know the system. If a spring was needed that it was needed before the install and should be covered by warranty. What were they thinking with the battery cable, doesn't anyone in that shop know how to read or ask questions. The guys at ACE will talk your head off, and they know thier product and are proud of it. Seems you are being billed for International to stand around and scratch thier heads or other parts , when they should have been asking questions. I hope you got a estimate in writting before hand and were made aware of any additional charges BEFORE they were done, if not you are not responsible for those charges. Get legal help and get ACE to support you and the estimated time needed to do it.

[B44D]

I have the SN 37 foot. I did have to have the leaf spring added after the Air ride was installed. It was $622.30. It's because all the weight is on the left (gen, refrig, batteries, tanks, slide out). When it is resting on the stiff springs, it doesn't matter, but when you are on the bags, it leans. So SW International put in a proportioning valve between left and right air bag and added the leaf spring. Still, total was $5870 plus $622 above.

[Texas TC]

Thanks B44D, I guess I missed that in some posts in this long thread. It does make sense on that model due to all the equipment being on the driver side of the coach. On my model, most of the support systems are on the left side of the coach but the fridge and kitchen are on the right side so I guess that helps balance out the weight. Also, the 6331 slide is not as long and heavy.

Now, has anyone with a 6400 had to have springs added?

[CraigH]

I will be taking the plunge here shortly and have a 6400. The International dealer here in W Palm Beach, Fl has done at least one other and is very willing and confident. My impression of International thus far has been VERY good. I'll report back with the outcome. probably complete first part of November.

[Kimbo]

My SN 37 had a lean before the ACE install. Now with the install I don't have the lean. Both airbags inflate at different levels/pressure to level my rig. I didn't need additional leaf springs since the air bags level the rig out.

[Texas TC]

Kimbo,

I thought you had posted that information before. I guess I am surprised that others have required spring work with the ACE suspension system. Mine acts like yours and levels the coach by applying the correct amount of air to each air bag as needed. My understanding of the system is that their is an air valve and sensor dedicated to that process.

Since others have required spring work, I must be incorrect in some of my assumptions. I just know mine works well as advertised and I did not require any additional springs to be added.

[Bubba]

I am new to this forum. Bought my 2008 SN 6331 Jan 2010, looks just like Texas TC's. It had 3630 miles on it. I have had every problem you guys have listed except the cab seal problems. We now have 11,000 miles. Just ordered the ACS air suspension. It will be here next week. Since I am in Goshen, Indiana I am going to meet with Mor-Ryde tomarrow and try to arrange installation. I am also going to talk to them about a SRL (Sterring Axle Rubberleaf). Mor-Ryde has used the aplication on International Transit Buses. This may be the answer to softening the fron end. I will post more when I have more info..

[Bubba]

I met with the guys at Mor-ryde. They are going to install my acs system next week. While my SN is there they are going to check the unit to make sure that a steer axle rubber leaf will have enough room. They are not sure there will be enough clearance because of the spring size required for the 10,000 pound front axle. If anyone is interested I will let you know what we find.

[Texas TC]

I would certainly be interested in hearing how the rubber spring adaption works if they are successful with your installation. Keep us posted.

[Bubba]

Picked up the SN from Mor-Ryde today. It has a 2" lean to the left. Mor-Ryde kind of just said they do not know why. They did a decent job on the install but they charged me 36 hours. To their credit they did discount the bill, but it was still more than it should have been. I drove it to my shop and there is a huge difference. I began to look the install over and read the instructions. In the instructions it specifically states that this application should have double air leveling valves. ACS only had one installed. When I spoke to Phil he said, Yes it should have two valves. Bubba was not happy.. Acs knew the application and should have shipped the proper equipment so the SN was not tied up for 3 extra days. The good news is that the guys in my shop can take it from here.
As for the front axle, that is a no go at this time. Mor-Ryde is going to reengineer their rubber leaf for the front and will develope a rubber leaf for the rear. If anyone can wait long enough for them to get it ready the cost should be under $2000 per axle. They said it should perform as well as the air system.

[PJMichigan]

I am a newcomer to the website. I have been reading the threads for a few months and find it awesome. I have a 2010 SN 6341 with the old 4200 chassis. I am very interested in a better ride and hope to get some more info from BUBBA about the Mor-Ryde engineering. Thanks for your input.

[CraigH]

I picked up my 6400 with ACE suspension installed yesterday. When I headed down the highway all I could think was WOW! What a huge difference.

It cost a few bucks more than planned but given the ride I'll be over that here shortly. I had the work done by Rechtein International in Riviera Beach, FL... good people, great to deal with.

The suspension for mine was also shipped with one valve and had a lean when installed. The weight on the coaches is just not distributed equally side to side and that evidently shows up more with the airbags. Without hesitation they went ahead and modified the install to two valves so now it levels front to back and side to side automatically with any load changes. I was told this also makes it a bit more stable (?). That conversion to two valves is what cost me the extra bucks.

When I returned home I picked up the family and took them out for a road test... everyone was impressed with the signifcant improvement... no more going airborne in the back!

Let me join the list of folks thanking TC for his initial research and sharing... now my SN rides like the coach should!

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[cd6400]

CraigH,

I am seriously considering installing the ACE system on my 6400. Couple questions based on your experience. Was the added/extra valve provided by ACE as part of the kit? If asked for when ordering will they provide it? If not, what specific parts are needed in addition to the ACE kit and who/where are they purchased from?

[CraigH]

The dual valves were not provided by ACE. The International dealer supplied the valves, air line, etc as needed. They also fabricated the necessary brackets for mounting, etc. Nothing real high-tech and I was told the valves are the same ones they use on heavy trucks.

I was a little surprised ACE shipped with a single valve setup after reading other recent comments.

I sure can't complain about the ride though!

PS: While it was in they also replaced the fan clutch and applied another new update. It addressed several things but I am told one was to improve the life of the injectors by flushing them after shut down.

[cd6400]

Would you mind providing the POC you dealt with at Rechtein? I'd like to speak with them about the extra parts and possibly get specifics such as part numbers ect. I may be dealing with an inexperienced installer so I'd like to be as prepared as possible.

[CraigH]

I worked with Doug Capps, he is the service manager for their three dealerships here in S Fla. Seems knowledgable and great to deal with... Phone is 561-882-9050.

Good luck... we will be headed out on a bit longer trip here around Christmas and get a little more experience with the ride... one real bouncy concrete bridge on the route which was scary before.... always had to slow down to about 35mph... I am anxious to see if the air ride will tame it...

[cd6400]

Thanks for the response. As it turned out I spoke with Doug yesterday when I called Rechtein. He was very helpful and appeared knowledgeable about the install. He estimated the installation to be between $6 and $6.5K based on a two valve installation and "additional features". Did you have anything special done over and above the basic two valve install?

[CraigH]

Nothing additional... I talked about having an air connection installed for airing tires, etc but ended up not having it done this go 'round.

They do a nice job of installing the air compressor and tank assembly up inside the frame infront of the front axle. He may be referring to that mounting.

[kart74]

Sorry for not letting everyone know the results of my ACE installation sooner. If you remember I paid for the parts and Cummins was doing the installation. It turned out they needed to order the second air thingy and add leafs because of the lean I am hearing more and more about. We bartered the labor and I felt it was only right that I pay for the extra parts. Now it sounds like most are having to do the same. So the total ended up a little over $6,000.00. Problem is that we only got a chance to drive it once before we had to winterize so I don't know how much of a difference it made. It seemed huge the short distance we did go. Now is there anything I am supposed to do for the winter with the system? I didn't get any kind of service guide so I am clueless as to what maintenance it needs if any. Do you all take your house batteries out for the winter? Do you know that the thing was hitting so hard it broke the strap on one of the batteries which in turn busted the ground wire off? I sure hope I spent this money wisely.

[Texas TC]

Glad you got that resolved and negotiated a reasonable cost! The only winter maintenance you need to do on the ACE system is to drain the water from the air tank which you should do after each trip or two. Since you did not drive very far, you probably did not generate enough moisture to worry about it this winter.

As far as winterizing goes, I empty all the tanks, blow out the lines with my home air compressor and add RV antifreeze to all drain traps. I keep the coach hooked up to power all the time in storage and never have worried about removing the batteries. In your climate, the removal of batteries may be warranted but we just don't get that cold for extended periods here in Texas.

I know you will like the results of the ACE system when you get more of a chance to drive it. They are a really good investment and should have been a part of the original design.

Good luck!

TxTC

[TKonen]

Hi everyone, my wife and I just purchased a 2009 Supernova with the ACE air suspension already installed. I did some research on it before the purchase which is how I found this forum. Thanks to all who have posted, the information is great!
My system has only one height control valve and has the drivers side lean that others have talked about. I spoke with ACE and they said I should have two valves and are sending me another one with the brackets needed for install. After looking the system over, there doesn't seem to be enough room between the shocks on the front of the crossmember to add the second one. I hope they send detailed instructions.
My question is: Does anyone have any pictures of their ACE airbag suspension with the two height control valves installed?
Thanks for all the info,
Tim

[oldsnapper]

I just installed a Kelderman www.kelderman.com Air Suspension on the rear of our 2008 6331 Endura. Website has all the info.

Very well engineered, top quality fabrication & parts and straight forward installation instructions. The ride improvement is almost unbelievable! The install instructions & pictures were done on a Super Nova so that really helped. Here is a video showing the suspension at work that sold me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj-GtyVzU8Q Good company to work with and great price. Wish I had done this years ago! The hardest part was moving the wire and cables that would have rubbed on the new components. If anyone is interested in more info, please send a message.
Steve C. in Michigan

[Stevejo]

who in Michigan installed your air ride?

[oldsnapper]

I did the complete install myself. Could not find anyone capable within driving distance.

[Stevejo]

I am thinking about switching my rear dual tire set up to a super single. What off set did you go with on your rig and can you post pictures?

[oldsnapper]

I kept the 3 year old Continental rear tires. Would never think of changing.

[Stevejo]

After reading all the posts about air ride systems I went with ACS model 810. Kelderman system only has one air valve and they told me both bags had to be the same air pressure. I was worried about a possible lean that I read about some people having so I went with the ACS system with two air valves. I have it at Sawyers in Saginaw for the install. They would not give me a quote on labour so I am hoping it wont be too bad. I was thinking of also going with a super single rear but being from Traverse city Mi I am sure I will have to drive on a little snow or ice from time to time so I am not sure about traction issues would love to hear about anyones experience with rear super singles.

[SlimTim]

I am thinking about switching my rear dual tire set up to a super single. What off set did you go with on your rig and can you post pictures?

As an FYI, the Dana Spicer 17060S rear axle found in the Supernovas is not approved for a single outset wheel. I don’t know why it’s not approved. I just saw this in the Dana Spicer application document and thought I would pass it on.

Take some photos if you decide to go with supper singles as I think it would look good.

Tim

[Cyclechris]

Hey Folks, First time commenting on this forum. I purchased a SN 6400 about a year ago, and have many of the same complaints about its ride. I can't justify the $6-10K to put the ACE or Kelderman system in. Anyways, after observing much of what has been said here in my own coach, the main issue I believe is a lack of suspension, so I did two things which I am certain is not as good as ACE or Kelderman, but helped a fair bit and for a fraction of the cost. 1st, I added shocks to rear, I think on this forum someone else mentioned they did the same and all the part numbers needed to do that(I think I spent less than $300 total for shocks and the mounts). 2nd I added a basic 5000lbs Air Ride system. In retrospect, I wish I could have found one of their 7500lbs systems that would have fit, but ultimately I found the 5k system for 2008 Dodge 4500 could be modified to fit between the axle and the frame. The air ride was $375 and took about 4 hours to modify and install on the SN 6400. As previously mentioned it does add to the spring rate, but honestly it needs it as the truck was at its max before, especially with 150 gallons of water on board. I had hoped for more lift (2-3inches) but only achieved 3/4 to 1 inch additional height by installing this system but I was able to unload the factory joust bumpers which allowed both the rear shocks and those joust bumpers to actually provide some dampening. For those who don't have it in them to drop a lot into the suspension of a 10-12 year old RV, it still isn't what I would call a great ride but also isn't shaking the Fridge or TV out of the wall either. I don't want to spend too much more money on the ride, but I am considering timbren joust bumpers to provide a more progressive dampening than the 12 year factory ones. Food for thought.

btw did all this without taking tires off and at the RV storage lot so was not complicated!

[pwerwagn]

Look into the sumo spring jounce bumpers too. I have used the timbrens and felt they were harsh and not super progressive. Sumo sells theirs in 3 different material make ups so you can swap from soft-med-firm if you need to make a change.

[Rvguy]

Hello I am looking into the same system as well it would be really nice if I can link up with you to share some thoughts how you are liking the system I am in Texas as well

[Henry111]

VIAIR is one of the most precious air compressors (https://www.rvhometown.com/best-rv-air-compressors/) I have bought for our fifth-wheel caravan, but it serves me well. It gives me confidence that I can inflate all my caravan and truck tires without moving the pump as the flexible air sock can stretch veritably fluently. You do not have to worry about going to the truck stop to inflate your tires to the correct pressure.