VT365 difficult to start

[Texas TC]

I ran into a slight issue when trying to start my SuperNova on our first morning out after stopping overnight at Deming, NM. Early (around five am) in the morning, we were preparing to depart from the campground and finish our trip on in to North Phoenix. I went through the normal departure procedures and settled in to my captains chair. After turning on the ignition switch, letting all the lights come on and go out, I tried to start the VT365. It would turn over and would not start. I repeated probably ten to twelve times and still it would only turn over and not start. The outside temperature was 41 degrees so it was not really that cold. After repeated trying, I called Coachnet and they were going to call me back with technical support assistance. The remaining leg of the trip was only 359 miles so I unhooked the Jeep Wrangler, moved some essentials for my wife to the Jeep and sent her on to the final destination. After she left and before I received my call back from Coachnet, I tried it one more time and it started right up. I called my wife and she stopped at the first rest area she came to which was about 25 miles down the road. I stopped, hooked the Wrangler back up and we finished our trip on to Phoenix.

We had to stop for fuel and I left the engine running at the truck stop.

At our final destination, we did our setup and prepared for our week of visiting with the kids and grand kids.

The next morning, I tried to start the Nova and it did not start on the first try but did immediately on the second.

I am assuming there is an issue with the glow plugs or a sensor. I was just wondering if anyone else has gone through a hard to start situation with the VT365 engine. I would like to get back home and have Southwest International in Dallas diagnose the problem. I am just a bit nervous about this happening again on our trip home.

Other than that, the Nova ran great. I really like running Power Service fuel additive in the tanks. I was pulling grades at 70 that I previously had been slowed to 50-60 mph. I run the additive to help with the lubricating properties that have been lost with ultra low sulfur diesel and to try to protect the injectors but it really does seem to improve the power.

Please let me know if anyone has run into the hard to crank problem and what you did to fix it.

[cd6400]

Mine acted similarly one time. During pack up, I had turned the ignition on to pull the slides in and instead of turning the ignition off then back on, I tried to start it. Same symptoms as yours. After cycling the ignition and waiting for all dash lights to go out it did start but after quite a bit of cranking. Since then, I start the engine as soon as the Start light goes out and haven't had a repeat. I think the glow plugs will time out if a start is not attempted soon after turning on the ignition. Did CoachNet call you back?

[DGator]

Hi TC,
I had the same problem and it turned out to be the glow plug itself, once it was changed out all was good. There was no indication that the glow plug was out other than the delayed ignition, which I experienced anytime I had a cold start.

By the way, thanks to your advice and experience I had the ACE system install about a year ago and we are very happy with results, the wife and kids can actually sit at the dinette for more than just five minuets at a time.

A question for you, now that your engine is broken-in what is your MPG?

DGator

[Texas TC]

1. I called Coachnet back before they returned my call and told them to cancel my request for service.

2. I don't really get any better mileage now than before the coach was broken in. I have over 42000 miles and still get 6.5-8 mpg primarily because I tow my Jeep Wrangler or a utility trailer most all the time and I tend to drive 70-75 mph on freeways.

[pchicky]

Hey TC, I had the problem once, in Breckenridge after the rig sat for a week at 9000+ feet altitude. What finally kicked it over, after about 6 tires, was I floored the accelerator while cranking, and it jumped to life and blew out some rich exhaust. I contributed it to the altitude and haven't had an issue since.

I also usually crank mine just after the glow plug light goes out to ensure I've got max heat in the cylinders.

Sounds to me like a glow plug issue possibly for yours.

[CraigH]

I found if I waited too long after the Wait light went out mine would not start. I agree with others... now I crank right after the light goes out and it cranks right up.

[Texas TC]

I have used the procedure that all of you have proposed by starting the engine right after the "wait to start" light goes out. I have tried it twice this week while parked at the RV park. It started right up both times. The real test will come at four o'clock in the morning when we prepare to depart for Texas. That will be as cold as it has been since we have been in Arizona. I have confidence that, using your procedure, I will not have any problems. Crossing my fingers.

TXTC

[Texas TC]

At 5:00 am in Carlsbad, NM this morning it was 31 degrees. Hit the starter after going through all the lights and nothing. Tried five times, waited, repeated five times, again and again. Called CoachNet and was preparing to have a mobile mechanic come out to raise the jacks (can't raise the jacks unless the engine is running) in preparation for being towed to Hobbs, NM when, try it one more time, it started right up. That was 6:30 am after trying to start it for an hour and a half. I even started the generator to keep all the batteries up.

I got home at 4:00 pm local time, unloaded, winterized cause it is supposed to get cold here Thanksgiving day, had dinner and took the coach straight to International. Gotta luv Southwest International, they stay open until midnight and on Saturdays (except Thanksgiving when they close on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday). I will probably not get it back until next week after the cold weather sets in. I want them to see what I was going through.

I will post the fix when they do their diagnostic test.

Cold mornings are not my friend and I really hope they get this thing fixed. My wife said I jinxed it because I was telling her how well it was running on this trip. Other than starting problems, it absolutely ran flawlessly even through the mountains of AZ and NM. I turned 43,000 miles on this trip so the engine should certainly be broken in now and it sure runs like it is.

[michaelmangine]

tc, i had that problem with my 2002 f-250 7.3 and it was a cylinoid that preheats the glow plugs. easy fix.good luck :lol:

[Texas TC]

I got word from Southwest International that I needed a new Glow Plug Controller. Turns out the controller is not covered under the five year engine warranty and the unit plus installation is around $600.00.

I still have a year and a half left on my extended warranty I bought with the coach and will only have to pay a deductable of $100.00.

I should get it back today. The holdup has been between Southwest International and my extended warranty company communicating. That all got finalized and approved this morning so the rig should be ready for pickup sometime today.

Whew, I will be glad to get my baby home again.

TxTC

[cd6400]

TC,
Great news. Do us a favor. When you pic up your coach ask the tech if it makes a difference whether or not waiting for all dash lights to go out vs just the "wait to start" light makes a difference before a start attempt. Also if the glow plugs "time out" if a start is not attempted after a certain period of time? I think is makes a difference on my coach.

[Nanaeve]

As part of my "Getting to Know " my unit I noticed a Solenoid on the top left side of the engine on my International Endura. Seems that this is the Glowplug solenoid. The large wire going to it had a corroded connector and terminal (As a brand new unit) and so I cleaned them both up. This is similar to a starter solenoid found on Fords and others in years past. This is the part of the glowplug system that handles the high current and is a high failure rate item. Keep an eye on this it probably is a big part of the problem. I am looking into replacing it with a "Solid State" Relay (One of the Benefits of working in Electronics for 35 years), if I come up with the part I'll let you know.

[Texas TC]

According to the technical support guys at Southwest International...When the "wait to start" light goes out, the glow plugs turn off. Sooo, it would be assumed that one should start the engine immediately after the light is extinguished to get the most benefit from the glow plug heat.

So, there ya go. Another one of our questions checked off the list.

TxTC

[B44D]

My SN 6372 still isn't running right. Been in SW International twice in 3 months. Replaced turbo, injectors, cleaned fuel tank, replaced filters. It still is under-powered and vibrates after shifting. Texas TC, did you check with International about the additive you are using? Thought I might give it a try.

[Texas TC]

I did not check with them but I did tell them that I was using Power Service fuel additive to try to save the injectors and enhance the poor lubricating properties of ULSD. They did not give me any indication that I should not be using the additive. It does add to the cost of fueling but I feel much more comfortable about my engine since I started using it with every fill up.

[Nanaeve]

When I had my last service at the Sacramento International dealer , I asked about an additive and they sell and recommend "Stanadyne Performance Formula". I now get it by the case and use it in my Dodge PU also. I keep a case of 12 in the Endura and several bottles at home and add it every tank full. So far, no problems. It's lots cheaper by the case.

[agood214]

We went to Las Vegas over New years and the temperatures were in between hovering in the 27-29 degree range....

On starting the vt-365 I ran into something I had not seen it do before.

The engine started, then slowly begin accelerating towards 2K rpm in speed while sitting in neutral.

I had to hit the accelerator to get it to slow back down.
It would continue to do that at idle until we took off ....

This happened throughout the trip, but has not happened before or since the return - sitting in its space.

there was no indication of an issue and the engine acted fine.

1. It would turn over and start just fine.

2. Coach batteries were new - Date of manufacture of the chassis/batteries was in 2007 and one had gone dead and was replaced prior to trip.

3. Annual service was done prior to trip - I double checked all fluid levels, check and emptied the water trap.



Any ideas why the engine would slowly creep up off of idle like that ?

[schmittm]

Mine does the same thing 90% of the time. What I do is use the cruise control to set the engine idle speed. Start the engine, then turn on cruise then push Set, then push Accell a couple of times and the engine RPMs will slowly go up. I usually set RPMs at 900 or 1000 to warm up and to keep engine from accelerating.
Not sure why it does it, might have to do with running the fan at higher speed. I don't think anything is wrong with it. Does this more often when it is cold and maybe it is a way of warming up engine and get water circulating.

[CraigH]

I too have experienced the same thing. I agree it appears to be designed that way for warming up the engine. Only does it when it's cold.

[Texas TC]

Yep, does it most of the time when it is cold or has been sitting for a while. I hit the accelerator and it idles back down. I don't recall it ever idling back up after hitting the accelerator once.

[schmittm]

Mine will idle back up after about 5 min, that is why I use the cruise control for the idle speed to help warm it up and to maintain a constant RPM.

[cd6400]

Folks, Don't be alarmed. This is completely normal....when its near freezing temps the engine will idle for a short while until oil pressure is stabilized and has had a chance to circulate in the engine. Then slowly it will idle up to approx. 1500 rpm. It will hold that rpm until the park brake is released or brake pedal is depressed or until engine temp gets up to near normal (160 deg). When in gear the function is disabled so it won't happen while driving. There's a description of this function in the manual. My GMC duramax has the same feature.

[Georunner]

When it gets real cold, 10 degrees or colder, the engine will run fast for quite a while. It is exactly whed cd6400 says, it is normal. I have found that the engine will not idle fast for such a long period of time, if I plug the block heater in.