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EHILL
10-04-2006, 08:43 AM
we are also new to the forum but we could use some help this is our first long trip and we have had a number of problems but the big one facing us now is the house barreries will not charge from shore or genrator the only way we can get them up is by running engine we called G/S they said to put slow charge we did and notthing happen we are in virginia and no where near dealer does anyone have a suggestion
thanks

gsadmin
10-04-2006, 09:49 AM
To me it sounds like your Converter is not operating or is operating but the current is not getting to the batteries.

Check the circuit breakers from converter. They will most likely be attached to the firewall. Mine have three breakers that have a bar-type thing that flips 90 degrees. There will be large 4-6 guage wires to these breakers. If those are not tripped and the connections from them to the battery look good. Also, if you have a voltmeter, plug the coach in, wait 60 seconds, then set it to DC and put one probe on the output from the converter and one to ground...you should be seeing 13V+. If not, there is something either wrong with the converter, the connections or the circuit breaker(s).

The other possibility is a grounding issue to the Chassis...see my posts for a description of an issue i resolved recently with the ground on my coach.

RJ82much
10-04-2006, 10:05 AM
Hi EHill,

I'll try not to make the response too long nor technical, You have a lot of things to check, all of which are fairly easy. Some may seem obvious (a "DUH" factor), some you'd never thought of, & some may not fit the conditions you've described. Humor me though.

* Check that both disconnects are "ON" just inside the entry door.
* Check that all circuit breakers are "ON" within your power compartment (not sure where it's at on diesels). There will be heavy red wiring mounted to the compartment walls & lots of relays & circuit breakers, big & small. You have to look closely to find the small "flag" on each circuit breaker. Make sure that all flags are pushed in to the closed position.
* My Onan generator is forever tripping one leg of the 2 circuit breakers right at the generator. Open the compartment door (is your's in the front?), lift off the generator cover (no tools required) and operate each circuit breaker to assure both are reset.
* The charger supposedly has a line breaker (someplace - I'm not sure where). My notes say that it is in the power compartment with the other electrical equipment & wiring. My charger is under the bed & I believe there is a DC circuit breaker panel on the bed base. Just look to see if anything is tripped in any of those panels.

That's enough for the 1st go-around. Let us know how you make out.

gsadmin
10-04-2006, 10:31 AM
The circuit breakers I was referring to were those "flag" type. Good point on the main disconnects...but if that were the case, wouldn't they get no 12v power inside the coach?

Ultimately, IMO its something on the charging circuit from the converter. Either the converter, a disconnected wire (like a ground), or a breaker.

I doubt it is anything from the generator if you report that you have the same issue on both Generator power as well as shore power.

The last thing it could be is the ATS (automatic transfer switch) or the internal wiring therein. What I would check as a non-technical way on this one is to feel the outside of the converter to see if its warm or you hear a fan going to make sure that 110V is actually making it there.

Basically the wiring works like this:

110V from the generator and or the shore power comes into an ATS. If you have an inverter, that power comes in as well. This switch (which can be external or internal to the inverter itself) has a hierarchy of what 110V source it will use if more than one is energized (ex. Generator is running AND you are plugged into shore power.) then it outputs the 110 to the breaker box which in turn outputs to the various coach outlets and devices. One of those devices is the converter which then converts the 110V AC power to 12V DC for those devices in the coach that need it as well as charging the batteries. Some coaches have one unit that has the inverter, converter, and ATS in one. Mine does not. On that big expensive coach I would almost bet you have an ALL-IN-ONE.

Has this ever charged the batteries?

gsadmin
10-04-2006, 10:42 AM
Oh, BTW, for all you doubters out there, this is the exact situation where having the wiring diagrams and more detailed documentation is crucial.

This person has no real support, no dealer nearby, and potentially and easy fix. If they were not comfortable themselves troubleshooting the problem, they could probably go to any RV dealer and give them the diagrams and they could help them.

RJ82much
10-04-2006, 11:40 AM
Admin & EHill,

Admin is absolutely correct in his assements. I tried to not get too specific because then I have to present the nearly non-existent circuit schematics.

The conditions that EHill describes, doesn't quite seem possible in entirety. Nor do my "solutions".

* If coach disconnect is off, then engine generator cannot charge the house batteries.

* If chassis disconnect is off, you can't start the engine.

* Easy to check the ATC (auto transfer switch). While plugged into shore, is the clock on your microwave on? Start generator. After 1 minute or so, is there a flicker & clock on microwave is still on? I do this with the TVs as well. One of your A/Cs won't run if a leg of generator is tripped out. Do not switch between shore & generator with A/C's on ... a generator breaker will certainly trip.

After the ATS, the coach doesn't know where the ac power is coming from. The converter (& combo unit - conv, invt) get ac power thru bed base mounted AC load panel circuit breaker. You want to check those circuit breakers.

* There is a mysterious device called the IRD relay & IRD controller that allows some combination of cross-charging of battery systems (so long as disconnects are closed). I think that so long as the house battery is below a certain voltage & maybe engine is running, then engine generator will charge house batteries. If house batteries aren't low, then no charging will take place. Of course, you can always press the "battery" button on the dashboard to put the two systems in parallel and put power into the dead or low one. Do so VERRRRY carefully.

* Converter DC out does not go thru the disconnect switch. The battery can be charged by the converter with disconnect off (per the non-existent diagram)

* and now a question: If your coach battery is stone-cold dead, can you operate the disconnect relay? It looks like not. Same should be true of your chassis disconnect & chassis battery. Thank goodness for that battery (crossover) switch on the dashboard. Just make absolutely sure that either the engine is running, or the generator is running before using it!

whew, & we still only scratched the surface!

RJ82much
10-04-2006, 11:47 AM
Oh, BTW, for all you doubters out there, this is the exact situation where having the wiring diagrams and more detailed documentation is crucial.

This person has no real support, no dealer nearby, and potentially and easy fix. If they were not comfortable themselves troubleshooting the problem, they could probably go to any RV dealer and give them the diagrams and they could help them.

Admin, (& those referenced doubters), after my recent factory visit, let me say only, that the purchaser of perhaps '08 models (maybe sooner) may have pleasant surprises in store. Don't go to the bank with this, but rest assured, we have been heard (& apparently listened to), loud & clear.

I am a "happy camper".

GStream40
10-04-2006, 07:11 PM
we are also new to the forum but we could use some help this is our first long trip and we have had a number of problems but the big one facing us now is the house barreries will not charge from shore or genrator the only way we can get them up is by running engine we called G/S they said to put slow charge we did and notthing happen we are in virginia and no where near dealer does anyone have a suggestion
thanks

Do you have an Xantrex Inverter/charger located in the compartment where you power cord is stored? If so there is a circuit breaker located on the front of it. Push it in to reset if tripped.

If you do have an Xantrex Inverter, check the remote panel located inside the coach to see if it is lit up. It should tell you what the DC voltage is coming off the inverter. If it is not showing any or very low, below 12 volts, then there is a problem with the charging side of the Inverter. On the right side of the Xantrex remote panel you will see a column of lights for the power share, using the push button on the bottom, set it to 50amp if not already lit.

I will try to get a link to post here for the Xantrex to show how it is wired directly to the batteries to charge them.

Ron

GStream40
10-04-2006, 07:33 PM
Xantrex Inverter/Charger link:

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/8/learn.asp

Ron

EHILL
10-04-2006, 07:47 PM
frist we would like to thank each of you that replied we are trying several things as we speak the thing about the switch in the power cord compartment the switch was throwed when he switched it back the panel for the batteries went to full charge we hope that was the ix will let you know if it is we are really new to this and dont know what we are doing but learning the hard way

GStream40
10-05-2006, 07:11 AM
It sounds like you have located the problem and the charging is now working for the batteries.

Keep us updated and if possible detail what "switch" you are refering to so that everyone will know so that if anyone else runs into this problem it will be one thing to check.

Ron

gsadmin
10-05-2006, 08:06 AM
RJ, regarding the 2008 models and a possible surprise...thats all fine and good, but waht about those of us with 2007 and older :)

Hopefully they are truly listening.

RJ82much
10-05-2006, 08:23 AM
Is your inverter/charger the Xantrex Freedom 458? I see that there are two circuit breakers on the face which must be on.

Don't feel bad. I thought my Onan generator was "broke" till I found those circuit breakers.

In troubleshooting things that suddenly aren't working, unless you've heard a loud noise or smell a strange odor, always assume the simplest cause first. Once those have been eliminated, then it's time to start tearing into the innards. But look for the easiest "mechanical" cause first (switches & interlocks).

The traditional argument between electrical engineers & mechanicals is that the cause is always the other guy's discipline. (heh heh, you know who you are!)

RJ82much
10-05-2006, 08:32 AM
RJ, regarding the 2008 models and a possible surprise...thats all fine and good, but what about those of us with 2007 and older :)

Hopefully they are truly listening.

Admin, my Ouiji Board is only so perceptive. Life continues to have it's deep, dark, unanswered mysteries.

GStream40
10-05-2006, 08:47 AM
Is your inverter/charger the Xantrex Freedom 458? I see that there are two circuit breakers on the face which must be on.

Don't feel bad. I thought my Onan generator was "broke" till I found those circuit breakers.

In troubleshooting things that suddenly aren't working, unless you've heard a loud noise or smell a strange odor, always assume the simplest cause first. Once those have been eliminated, then it's time to start tearing into the innards. But look for the easiest "mechanical" cause first (switches & interlocks).

The traditional argument between electrical engineers & mechanicals is that the cause is always the other guy's discipline. (heh heh, you know who you are!)

Yep, Darn electrical always blaming us mechanical for failures. :lol:

EHILL
10-05-2006, 03:09 PM
WE ARE DOING FINE TODAY IT WAS THE SWITCH BY THE POWER CORD THAT RON TOLD US ABOUT WE THANK YOU AGAIN SOOO MUCH YOU ALL ARE SO HELPFUL

GStream40
10-05-2006, 03:40 PM
Just as the motto says "Gulf Stream RV owners coming together to help each other!"

:) :D :lol: 8) :wink:

Ron

GStream40
07-01-2007, 09:36 AM
Just wanted to do a follow-up about the Hill's mystery breaker located on the left side panel in the compartment where the power cord is located.

While at the "Back Home Rally" I was able to meet J.D. and Ellen who were also at the rally. Really nice couple and we had a good discussion with them. The have a beautiful '07 Tour Master.

Oh, BTW ladies, Ellen is the main driver of this very large beauty. J.D. says she does a terrific job handling the coach.

I looked in the compartment and found out that the breaker is the "Charge Line" 80 amp. breaker. It is labeled with a very small label below the breaker. If it is tripped, then one will have no 12 volt charging to the batteries.

On many other coaches of previous years, including our 2004, there is a large fuse located on the back wall of the power cord compartment that does the same thing, protect the 12 volt battery charge circuit for the inverter.

The Hill's haven't had any more problems with the breaker tripping since they reset it.

Oh, BTW they sure let all the GS personel know that no one knew about what was wrong including Gulf Stream and they were able to get help right here on our Gulf Stream Owners RV Forum. :lol: Thanks J.D. & Ellen for talking up the forum. :!:

If anyone sees the Hill's on the road or in a campground, make it a point to meet them. They are traveling across United States to the West coast and back until November.

Ron

hyall
07-01-2007, 06:54 PM
Just wanted to do a follow-up about the Hill's mystery breaker located on the left side panel in the compartment where the power cord is located.

While at the "Back Home Rally" I was able to meet J.D. and Ellen who were also at the rally. Really nice couple and we had a good discussion with them. The have a beautiful '07 Tour Master.

Oh, BTW ladies, Ellen is the main driver of this very large beauty. J.D. says she does a terrific job handling the coach.

I looked in the compartment and found out that the breaker is the "Charge Line" 80 amp. breaker. It is labeled with a very small label below the breaker. If it is tripped, then one will have no 12 volt charging to the batteries.

On many other coaches of previous years, including our 2004, there is a large fuse located on the back wall of the power cord compartment that does the same thing, protect the 12 volt battery charge circuit for the inverter.

The Hill's haven't had any more problems with the breaker tripping since they reset it.

Oh, BTW they sure let all the GS personel know that no one knew about what was wrong including Gulf Stream and they were able to get help right here on our Gulf Stream Owners RV Forum. :lol: Thanks J.D. & Ellen for talking up the forum. :!:

If anyone sees the Hill's on the road or in a campground, make it a point to meet them. They are traveling across United States to the West coast and back until November.

Ron



Ron: where is the breaker located on a 07 TourMaster? In the reel power cord compartment there is no breakers 110v cord for the engine block warmer

uss

GStream40
07-01-2007, 07:36 PM
Ron: where is the breaker located on a 07 TourMaster? In the reel power cord compartment there is no breakers 110v cord for the engine block warmer

uss


On EHill's '07 Tour Master, the breaker is located in the power reel cord compartment on the top of the left side wall. It is a "Push" in type 80 amp breaker made for 12 volt DC circuits. It is not the "toggle switch" type like one sees on a 120/240 volt ac circuit.

Your's should be in the same place. If it is not, then you might have to do some searching near the converter and inverter to locate it. It should be labeled " Charge Circuit" or "Charging Circuit".

Ron

hyall
07-01-2007, 07:53 PM
Thank You