What is the hierarchy of Gulfstreams?

[isabeau69]

I know, strange question. We are seriously looking at a 2004 Crescendo (my husband is in love with it). However, he was wondering what the "pecking" order is. I.e. Crescendo, next step up a Yellow Stone? We've never owned anything like this but have six year old twins and figure now is the best time to do some traveling with them. The thought of having them strapped in car seats for hours on end, and hauling a 5th held no appeal for me. I figured as owners you all would be the best people to ask.

Also, he was wondering how Gulfstreams rate. For example, if you were comparing them to vehicles, would they be Cadillacs, Buicks or AMC Pacers? (His analogy, not mine.)

Please be patient with the questions, I promise future ones will not be so asinine.

[Keys Cruiser]

I'm not an expert but from what i've seen over the years, certain Crescendo models are the same as my unit. Pretty much the same RV. Although I would change a few things with my coach, we have really enjoyed our 2008 Yellowstone 8390 pusher. Make sure the slides work smoothly... check for any sign of leaks. make sure all the lights and outlets work. check the age of the tires (not just the condition).

[isabeau69]

Thank you! We are going to have it inspected by a professional (not affiliated with the dealership). We are in Georgia, the RV is in Utah. Sale is contingent on it passing the inspection. Plan on picking it up on the kids' Christmas break. Trial by fire. Big surprise for them if it goes through. Probably going to drive other people nuts with questions on the way home.

[03heritagerider]

According the the literature I've found for 2004, here is the "pecking" order...

Atrium
Crescendo
Friendship
Independence
Sunvoyager
Ultra Supreme
Yellowstone

From what I can tell, the difference is in the options, except for the Atrium, which had a LOT of glass!

Good luck with your research. If you have ANY questions, this is the place to ask. I have learned more from this forum than I could possibly explain. Some very knowledgeable folks in this group.

[GStream40]

Here's the info that I have from Gulf Stream according to the 2004 Motor home line up:
Class A Motorhomes

Diesel

Atrium
Friendship
Yellowstone Country Club
Crescendo

Gas

SunVoyager
Ultra Supreme
Independence


Now each model could have many options added that could drive the list price up, sometimes way up.

Ron

[Frutza]

I dont know the pecking order in or out of Gulfstream, but compared to friends of mine with other diesel pushers, I'm money ahead,they paid more, alot more and I have alot of the same items. As far as the Crescendo the only thing I can warn you about is the bedroom, with the bed turned sideways there is a step up on the far side of bed and if your tall you wont be able to stand staight up, I'm 5'10" and I hit my wife is shorter and has no problem. Any other problems are inherent to diesel pushers, look thru all the forms, see what people say are good or bad options in there coaches, enjoy what ever you get, Good luck

[RayChez1]

The Flagship for Gulf Stream from 2002 to 2006 was the Scenic Cruiser

1. Scenic Cruiser
2. Atrium
3. Friendship
4. Yellowstone
5. Crescendo
6. Sun Voyager (diesel)

These were all rear diesel pushers.
Then in 2007 Gulf Stream made the Friendship 7 the top of the line for two years 2007 and 2008 and they stopped manufacturing the Scenic Cruiser.
2009 the TourMaster was revived and they made it the flagship for Gulf Stream.

[howermj]

Ray,

I'd pretty much agree with your list, however 2005 was the last year for the SC. I was looking at a 2005 model to replace my 2000 Millennium Edition SC, but ended up with a 2006 Tour Master instead. Here is how I'd amend your list.

2002-2005
1. Scenic Cruiser
2. Atrium
3. Friendship G7
4. Yellowstone
5. Crescendo
6. Sun Voyager

2006-2010
1. Tour Master Constellation (started in 2008...45G Tag axle...amazing coach)
2. Tour Master
3. Friendship G7 (G8 in 2007, last year made...replaced by Atrium in 2010)
4. Yellowstone
5. Crescendo
6. Sun Voyager (replaced by Caribbean in 2009)

I find it interesting how the Atrium made a brief reappearance in 2010 before GS stopped producing Class A coaches all together.

Anyway, just my $0.02. I'm loving my 2006 TM T40. It was built so late, it is essentially a 2007 T40A model.

[RayChez1]

Howerm, You are probably correct, but I thought SC was last sold in 2006, but you are probably correct. I was almost on the market for a Constellation, but they made very few and I never did get to see one in person. But they looked like a nice coach with a tag.

[RayHarkness]

Honestly...sometimes the older Gulfstreams are good. I have heard lots of problems..with ALL motorhomes over the past few years. I think they were all pricing down, cutting costs, and cut some corners. They looked good, but then again, have talked to many with recent gulfstream before they totally stopped Motorhome production, and they have had great luck. FYI..the Atrium we did look at once..and let me tell you, if your in the southern climates, all that glass, turns the coach into an oven with sunshine despite shades etc...if your up north, you might just like it!! I had heard the AC units can't keep up.

Ok..I will shut up now. Sadly, GS quit making them, I think basically they did a good job. Its sad the economy has raised so much havoc with these rv units, and boats as well...sad sad sads.

[howermj]

@raharkness - I agree that many of the older GS coaches were great. I beat the heck out of my Scenic Cruiser and never had a problem with anything EXCEPT the Spartan chassis IFS (which unfortunately needed to be replaced 1/2 way through my trek on the Alaska Highway). My wife and I looked for nearly 2 years for a replacement, and I still think that you can't get much better bang for the buck than the final run of Tour Masters. We finally settled on a 2006 T40 because it was essentially identical to the 2007-2009 T40A...but much less expensive. We've only put 3,500 miles on it so far (and we only bought it 7 weeks ago!), but we plan on taking our consulting practice on the road and full-timing early next year.

@RayChez - I found some late 2005 Scenic Cruisers with 4 slides (including an atrium). Almost bought one, but we live out west and I will do a lot of my work out here too. All those atrium windows scared me. My propane bill in winter would be more than my diesel bill! We looked (ok, stared) at a tag Constellation, too...beautiful coach. Just a bit too rich for my wallet.

My wife and I are actually loving the Tour Master. We bought it with 15K miles, and it was really well maintained. I was aerospace/electrical engineer in a former life, and my wife was an interior designer. Between the two of us, we have enough projects on the books to keep us busy until we can collect SS. This forum is a great resource. I wish I would have found it when I first bought my Scenic Cruiser, it would have saved me lots of $$. I'm sure I'll be asking lots of questions....

[RayChez1]

howermj, It really amazes me how Gulf Stream made so many different versions of the chassis on the Scenic Cruiser. My coach has the Neway Freightliner chassis, yours had the Spartan and I believe my friend in Florida his has the Spartan also.

I live in the West coast, in California and we belong to a Gulf Stream coach club. Several members have the TourMasters and they are a beautiful coach. About the only problems that some have encountered are the ones that have the Generac generators. Also if you are going to do some dry camping some of those coaches have residential type refrigerators (all electric) and the only thing that keeps them running are three batteries in the front of the coach. What they have done to eliminate the batteries from going dead is install some solar panels on the top of the coach. Works pretty good when dry camping.

[howermj]

@Ray

The residential fridge was one of the selling points for my wife. She hated our Norcold 1200. When the LP circuit on it finally went out, she really started pushing for an all electric model. I really like how it keeps stuff cold for hours without power. We've traveled all day without the inverter turned on and the fridge never got above 45F.

Solar is on my list of things to do. I'm in the research stages now, looking at matching up parts with vendors and figuring out what stuff I can do myself vs hire out. I'm a tinkerer, so it should be a fun project. ...and then there is the noisy Generac under the hood. I miss my Onan Quiet Diesel.

So many projects...so little money.

[RayHarkness]

I HATE that Norcold 1200 fridge..it ain't worth a crap...scuse me...specially in the warm climates. Looks nice, but thats about it.
how hard was it to get the other fridge in???? what model did you put in???? did it fit relatively close, so not a lot of screwing around? That peaks my interest. We put some ice cream in the freezer, all is cold, but its never cold enough. And I don't like my hot dogs thawing out!

[howermj]

Fortunately, our 2006 TM came with a GE residential fridge. You could get a Norcold 1200 LP/propane as an option, but in over 40 used coaches I looked at, only 1 had it. We love it...works ridiculously well.

Before we bought our new coach, we were looking at a Whirlpool 21 CF model with french doors to replace the failing Norcold in our Scenic Cruiser. We talked with the local shop to design a procedure...it went something like this:

1) Remove window opposite fridge in coach
2) Using forklift, drive up to side of coach and put tines directly through window opening.
3) Unbolt Norcold
4) Carefully pull out Norcold, and with 2 or 3 burly guys lay it on it's back on the tines
5) Back out forklift
6) Use norcold for target practice
7) Wire fridge space with 110v power.
8) Repeat process in reverse for new Whirlpool.

Very messy.

You also need to make sure that your batteries and inverter can handle it. I figured I'd have to up my bank size to keep it working in the summer heat (or run the generator all the time). The way the Tour Master handles this is with a separate (3rd) bank of batteries on an inverter dedicated to the 110 outlets in the coach.

[11B]

It's great to see this site finally come to life with some great posts. I have owned a 07 Friendship G8 since then and we have absolutely fallen in love with it. It has every expensive option ( hydro hot, full granite counter tops to name a couple) on it you can order and we paid far less for it new than any comparable coach on the market at the time.

Gulf Stream had a history of re inventing their coaches every 3-4 years with a different one being the new top of the line coach. I have seen a lot of G7 Friendships but just a couple of G8 like mine. Ray Chaze and I have done battle over the last 6 years on another web sit about GS vs Tiffin and Monaco. I can tell you first hand I bought the Gulfstream over both of them and have never regretted it.

My Moto is be good to your coach and do the service work as recommended by the manufacturer and you do the screw and bolt tightening and that GS will treat you well.

[RayHarkness]

now that I agree with...take care of it and it will take care of you. If you think about it, you drive down the road, twisting and turning, thngs are going to happen.It ain't a tank, although we would like to think so. I know some of the HONEST staff at the GS dealer told me that ours are beasts, and will take a beating. Think about it, Chassis, the coach on top. They all use similar products..althought wish mine didn't have that danged Norcold fridge 1200 lrm. but..it is what it is......

I have no complaints. Its take a beating and keeps on ticking!

[RayChez1]

I think it just takes a little bit of luck with anything. Knock on wood, but I am on ten years now with my Norcold 1200 lRIM and I have not had any issues with it. I live in the high deserts of southern California where the temperatures get up to around 110, and I also go to Las Vegas a lot in the summer and winter where in the summer it gets even hotter to around 118 degrees and the Norcold has served us well. I did have to slide the sensor that is mounted on the fins up about half an inch and the temperature is right where I wanted it to be. The freezer keeps everything solid (frozen). So I really can not complain about the Norcold, but I have read others that have had problems with the coils springing a leak and could cause a fire. But if you stop and think of the millions that have been sold, the percentages that have given problems is minimal.

But if it ever goes out I might consider the Samsung frig that many have been installing IF it does not take too much modification. It would have to be the exact size of the Norcold 1200 because I do not have much clearance to go up or down.

[RayHarkness]

Ray, just to check..what find do you have that sensor on? counting from the right to left...
and how close to the top. I moved mine once, and it did help. I still can't get my freezer really cold..
but am working on it....and if you think about it, Norcold really stepped up to the plate on this unit, and paid
a ton of money to provide a fix and protection....so I can't complain really about Norcold...its a sophisticated unit for sure.

[RayChez1]

I believe it is called a thermistor or something like that. Looking at the inside of the frig, it is mounted way in the back on the cooling fins on the right side. It just clips on, so all I done was slide it up about half an inch and it dropped the temperature down to where my wife wanted it on the refrigerator part. I am not sure if that sensor has anything to do with the freezer part. My freezer has always been super cold. Not sure if the freezer has its own thermistor. I will do some research to see what I can find out and if I find anything that will help you, I will post it.

[RayHarkness]

I replaced it once..and know it sensitive to the actually location..how many inches etc to the top..and has to be third fin over..ro something like that...
I messed with that on one of my ventures. I am somewhat working good now...I THINK. I just wish I could get my freeze down really cold. I think this time of year, its cooler probably fine. Humidity can be a problem...its of course more humid here. I might do some sniffing on this topic as well..Thanx.>R

[11B]

I don't know why but my G8 came with a Dometic frig and as the rest of my coach I've never had a problem with any of it not working 100% including the ice maker. Now the Dometic convection oven is a different story, it's a work of art that only a rocket scientist could run on a good day, can't even get the microwave portion to work half the time.

But it does give me some great yuk yuks when my neighbors come over and say " oh I'll show you how it works it's simple" two hours later it's always the same answer " sorry dude but that thing just wont do what it's supposed to." No problem for me because I went to Target spent 150.00 on a cheap counter top model and it works like a champ.

Sometimes admitting defeat is the better part Valor, or in this case cooking dinner with no hassles.

[RayChez1]

11b, that is funny how some things will work fine for some and not so good for others. I also have the Dometic convection oven/microwave combo on my coach and we have never had any problems. Fact while traveling through Florida in 2003 we stopped at an RV dealer to get a King dome installed. While there I noticed they had like ten boxes with these type of convection/ micro wave ovens on sale. I asked them why they had them on sale so cheap. They told me that the boxes had accidently been dropped and that some might have a small dent. I opened one box and I could not see any damage so I bought it as a back up for the one on the coach. Well the wife liked the one on the coach so much that she made me install the other at home. Ten years later they are both working great with no problems. She uses the convection oven and micro wave both a lot. Fact she does not even use the regular oven in the kitchen anymore.

[RayHarkness]

I have to agree with the micro/convection performance. It sounds like somebody got a bad one? I mean, if you think about it we bang and clank down the road, and who knows, some little part can go wrong. We love our Dometic Combo unit. Have done turkeys in them, and the convection is really great. Get rid of that mushy totaly microwave cooking..turning meat to gray something or rather!!! We purchased a combo unit, convec and Micro for the house. Wasn't cheap, and it doesn't come close to this one in our Gulfstream. We love the unit. I guess, luck of the draw eh?

only thing we had go bad was the lightbulb out under the bottom.... Found replacement and easily fixed...

Now looking for a pesky leak in the seam on the roof, which Raychez found the cure. Eternabond!!!

[RayChez1]

Water leaks are very hard to find. That is why I decided to take the advise of other RVers that had used Eternabond before. I never have to worry about a leak anymore. That stuff really works great. The best investment I ever made on the coach. I do not have to get up there to check the caulking anymore. I am 71 years old, and at my age it can get kind of dangerous walking on top of them coaches. One fall from up there and it is over. :lol:

[RayHarkness]

Ray, was that stuff quite flexible..when it went over those seem caps? or strips.
also, when you overlap, will it stick to itself. I read up on the stuff, and that stuff looks great.

I think 4" wide would cover our needs, over those seems?? is that what you used?

[RayChez1]

Yes Ray. I ordered two fifty foot rolls through Amazon. I washed the top real good and in the summer time while it is nice and hot, it will lay right over the seams. Four inch Eternabond tape is what I used. That stuff will stick to anything. It does help to have somebody helping you out, makes it a lot easier. My wife helped me.
I thought I had sent you pictures of the application. And yes it is very flexible tape. It actually looks like a putty spread out, but will stick and seal where ever you apply it to.

[RayHarkness]

yup...we talked about it I remember..I thought I had all my little leaks fixed..NOT..so I am going your route. Who in their right mind would design a roof like that, with that seam strip...good lord....I have one area, just above my table that keeps seeping down and out the window seams...its coming from up above.

Let me do some work on it when I can. I like what I read on that stuff..and you have the right idea. Just do all those seams and get it all over with.THANX

[cloudbaseracer]

So is the Tourmaster a higher level / quality than the Friendship or is it the other way around? Specifically around the 2006 - 2007 models?

Thanks,
James

[Chuck v]

James,

I am not an expert by any means but I did a bit of research and the 2007 Friendship M-8412 with 350 HP engine based at $255,388.
The Tour Master T40C with the 330 HP Mercedes like mine based at $230,720 -- whereas the 400 HP Cummins started at $239,120.
By list price alone it would seem the Friendship was the top of the line...

Chuck

[RayHarkness]

I have a 2002 Scenic Cruiser, Cummins. Ours is a Frieghtliner Chassis. Had work done on it at the local truck shop, and they said the axles and suspension were the top of the line. So, all is well with that.

I found some serious tricks to help the Norcold 1200 lrm. I will try to list them, BUT I do agree, be perfect backdrop for some gun practice, in the long run.
1. I installed a fan in the outside area, blowing some serious air up thru those back fins.
2. Inside the box, I sealed all around those cooling fins, really well. Its a bit difficult, but I made sure it was all sealed well. Took me a year to figure out that
that the gaskets sealing that area from the back outside, were gone, or never properly put in place. HUGE differernce. If we went down the road, before this fix,
out inside box temp would go sky high. We threw away a LOT of food and very angry wife.
3. Don't overfill it inside..Teach wife to go in fast, get out fast, It does not recover well for long time of air intrusion!
4. I saw this on another post. I found gaps in the freezer sides and bottoms. Where the front trim pieces met the inside box sides etc. One guy found some Gator Tape which was white. I taped all those seams very carefully, and sealed with caulk around the bottom seams inside the box. I have some photos of it if anybody wants to see, you can hardly see it. HUGE difference, I was amazed. Freezer now stays VERY cold, ice cream is actually hard for a change. Must have been a lot of leaking.
5. make sure that clip on the fin, that senses the cooling is properly placed. You can find lots of posts on this placement. I can't remember.
6. I keep some small fridge fans running, across the cooling fins, and some pushing down. This does help.
7. I removed the plastic tubs, and found a bit smaller replacement tubs with air holes in them, *Rubbermaid) I took out the glass shelves that those tubs sat on, and used the grill work, and made up my own grill for the bottom left side. Now air flow all the way down thru. This helped, as we would get moisture, but now we are getting airflow in and around. Not as much storage, but you shouldn't stuff them full.
8. I went to Marine store, and got a bilge area Halon extinguisher. I mounted it in that outside area...because of the known fire hazards, even though I have had the two recalls completed. Just makes me feel better.

so, if anybody has any questions, always glad to share. I should add, that my neighbor has a 2002 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom. VERY WELL made coach. He just replaced his Norcold with a Samsung, that fit nicely, with some trim work. HE LOVES IT. Its so much more efficient..and I am jealous!!!! $3500.00 job total.

[GulfStream1]

Hello Ray,

Just finished reading your long post about all you have done to get the Norcold LRIM to work the way it is suppose to. That was a lot of work you done and I am shocked to read about all the problems you had.

I guess I can consider myself lucky that I have never had any major problems with the 1200 LRIM Norcold. I did make one adjustment to get the fridge to get colder and that was to slide the thermister on the far right side of the fins inside the fridge.
I slid it up about one inch and the temperature is always around 34 degrees. The freezers always have been cold enough to keep the steaks and ice cream like a rock. But I have never added the fans that you did, and I have seen other coaches that have fans in the summer time on the outside vent blowing air into the back of the refrigerator.

I have read a lot also about the Samsung residential refrigerators. And they are good IF you are on full hookups all the time or make major modifications on coaches like what you and I have. We only have four house batteries, and most of your newer coaches have two more then ours to support such a refrigerator. Also you got to have a pure sine wave invertor. I have the 458 Freedom Xantrex which is a modified sine wave invertor 2000 watt with high surge capability, 3 stage charger.

We just got back from a Gulf Stream rally and some of the newer TourMasters had residential refrigerators and they had to start the generators in the morning and evening for several hours to recharge the batteries.

I had my Norcold running off propane and I run everything else off the invertor. I would start my generator for one hour in the morning to recharge the batteries. So my point is if you are going to dry camp with a residential fridge you will have to run your generator for several hours to recharge those batteries.

OH! I forgot to tell you that I had to change my ID and password because I could not remember my old password. I contacted the adminstrator and told him about my problem, but he has not responded.
RayChez

[RayHarkness]

got your note ok...I keep forgetting my passwords...this getting old is crap.
I tend to agree with you though, if we can keep the norcold going, thats what we need to do. I dont' have a lot of hours, or miles on the coach, 35,000 now. Wanted to put more.

I just kept reading up on the Norcold, and picking up everybodies elses ideas. It seems to work. The major thing I found though, was the seal around the cooling fins, it was wide open. I could push a wire, or wire tie freely thru, it was just sucking everything out.

Now that I have the stuff working, I am happy with it...that being said, I hope to hell I didn't just jinx myself. We were in Port Canaveral back in Octo, and it was HOT...no mositure inside, and it kept things very cold.

My problem is..my wife opens both of those doors and dilly dallys looking. I have decided to shut my mouth for peace...do the best I can.!!!!!!

taking another trip over Christmas. I think I am good to go. Now my KVH system is not working...I can go up, take the dome off, and line it up manually.!!! I am not sure I would put money into it, but maybe move to a newer system..when I get there....

all is well though..Ray