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Old 09-06-2010, 02:11 PM   #1
schmittm
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Default Injector went bad

Has anyone had an injector go out yet. I know this is a known problem with the Fords and with the school buses that use this engine, but I have not seen a post about this yet.
On our last camping trip I lost the #4 injector climbing a big hill pulling a 6000lb boat. The whole front end started to shake like a flat tire. We had to nurse it back home, on 7 cylinders. I run diesel additive and cleaners everytime so fuel was clean.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:56 AM   #2
Texas TC
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I lost four injectors coming down the mountain from Flagstaff, Az. to Phoenix back in April. Another owner just reported loosing injectors in the past week or so. I now use fuel additive and was hoping that would keep this from reoccurring. Now I am a little concerned that fuel additive might not be the answer.

When International repaired mine, they first diagnosed 3 bad injectors. They were replaced under warranty and then a fourth injector was diagnosed as being bad. The entire process had my coach in the shop at Phoenix International for four days in the middle of our trip. I wish they would have gone ahead and replaced all 8 but we all know that is not how warranties work. It just seemed to me after tearing the top of the engine down twice, it would have been cost effective to replace all of them. The good thing is they steam cleaned the engine and compartment and it looks like brand new under there. This was my first problem and it came at around 35,000 miles. I have driven over 5000 miles since then and so far so good.



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Old 09-08-2010, 03:07 PM   #3
steve.k
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Default Injectors and additives??

Texas do you think the additives help the injectors or is it more a design flaw??I was told the seals they use in the injector is usually what lets go, so I'm always mixed on using any conditioners.I do put in a little injector lubricant just as my own piece of mind with the fuel having less lubrication properties.
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:33 PM   #4
Texas TC
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My uneducated opinion is that it is a combination of design and the new low sulfur fuel. These engines are older designs and have had injector issues since developed for Ford. International says they have improved the design but I don't feel 100% certain that is the case. ULSD is a fairly new addition to the market and the lubricating properties, as I understand, have been reduced with this formula.

I have only been using additive every other tank but I may go ahead and start to add a smaller portion each fuel stop and see if it helps. I am probably the first of all of us that will run out of warranty since my in service date is in May, 2007 so I hope the fuel additive is the answer. Time will tell.



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Old 09-09-2010, 04:22 PM   #5
agood214
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TC is at the vanguard on this, but adding my two cents:

A bit of background...
I was discussing additives with my cousin who works for one of the largest lubricant /fuel distributors for many years ... think big diesel engines on rails with many "towables" behind them and many many of the large truck fleets

The new engines 2010 and beyond are urea injected... and expect ULSD..
A local ship company that runs a ferry service with multiple boats went to 100% B5 that my cousin's company delivers all for the lubrication...

A few of the newest Diesel passenger cars - I have one - are suffering from high pressure fuel pump failures at 20-35K miles...that are destroying the fuel system..... the conjecture - and I do say conjecture - but these are serious Diesel heads.... is that the lubrication - 'lubricity ?? sp.. of the ULSD is not sufficient - and that there are some early studies by Bosch that might back them up....

Net of net - folks driving daily drivers diesels are running 100% B5 and or adding lubricants...

I'll let you draw your own conclusion - but at 140 gallons of fuel per vehicle - you can get a case of additive - get a rebate maybe ...on special and have some possible 'insurance' that might give you a few more years before needing that 4 day vacation next to the repair shop....
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:38 PM   #6
steve.k
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Default fuel lubrication

Yes I've read about this abit and I'm in the Heavy Equipment buisness and some of the old mechanics I talk to suggest dumping a cup full of atf in the tank on heavy equipment.Our tanks hold similar capacity as the Supernova so I dont know if its a good idea or not.
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:37 PM   #7
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I am down for the second time in a month (see "Down in Dallas"). Last time they towed me in, replaced turbocharger. 2 hours back on the road, same problem. Lose power, let it sit 30 minutes, start up and go. Makes for a long trip. Back in the shop now, replacing an injector. Hopefully they will fix it right this time! Only 6000 miles...
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:47 PM   #8
Biobug
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I am a firm believer in running at least B5 biodiesel and up to B20. As stated
the lubricity of the legal diesel has now been proven to create excessive wear to the fuel system. Additives may help but just filling with even B2 will help. I run a Jeep Liberty CRD on 100% biodiesel the months I can (until the
40 degree or below weather starts.) I would run B100 in the International if
I could make enough to fill the beast but I can't.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:37 AM   #9
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I haven?t been on here in a while but figured I would chime in. I just got back from a ~3500 mile trip to Colorado and back. I was pulling my 26" enclosed trailer that we guestimated weighing around 8K pounds. On that way out my 6400 gave up the ghost. Lost power, shuddering and wanting to stall. We pulled over, called Coachnet and since it was the middle of the night they arranged a tow for the next morning. We sat idling in a truck stop overnight and the following morning we decided to try and limp it up the road the 20 miles or so to the dealer instead of waiting for the tow. Truck ran fine. We got to the dealer to find they were closed (Saturday) and wouldn?t be open until Monday morning. Since it was running fine again we pressed on. Made it another 400 miles or so before it happened again. This time letting it cool down didn?t have any effect so it was on the hook to International where they had it for a week. Final diagnosis, two injectors.

Then on the way home it acted up again. This time it felt and sounded like the turbo. It would make that "chuffing" or "farting" sound whenever you put your foot into the pedal and shake violently, wanting to stall. Again we pulled over and called Coachnet, and again it was Saturday afternoon. No one could take it until Monday morning. So, after sitting for about 2 hours we tried going again and this time it ran fine again. We made it the last 1000 miles home without any more problems. I haven?t been able to get it in to be looked at yet but will soon.

Anyone want a good deal on a 6400?
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:09 AM   #10
agood214
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Default I'd consult a legal professional

to see what you might be able to recover.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:57 PM   #11
B44D
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(See my earlier post) I finally got my SN back from International after 3 weeks. They replaced injectors, then they would test drive and another injector would foul. They drained the fuel tanks, cleaned the "rock catcher?" and replaced fuel filter. Evidentley sitting for 18 months before I purchased created bad fuel issues...Now running fine. Hope the 3rd time is a charm! On another note, it seemed very bouncy on the ride home. When I stopped, I noticed the air ride breaker was off, so I was not riding on the air bags, just springs. What a difference the bags make!!!
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Old 10-30-2010, 06:09 AM   #12
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Hi steve.k. I think it is a good idea. That's a brilliant idea. Nice.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:42 AM   #13
BillGates
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Default Re: Injector went bad

I had this similar problem. The injector went terribly bad. All I could do was replace it with a new one. Its very hard to deal with the injectors.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Injector went bad

"Well Bessie has been in the shop three times in the last month. First a waste gate on the turbo was replaced. Drove round trip from Richmond to Cape Girardeau back via Tuscaloosa, AL. Had to be towed from Christiansburg to Highway Motors in Roanoke who kept it a week replacing one injector, fuel filter, cleaning screen and polishing fuel. Fortunately Good Sam paid most of the cost on three injectors.

On the way home from Roanoke, got 50 miles and same thing again. Got Lucky this time and limped to my IH Dealer who are great. They said it is a warranty. It needed three injectors and the Turbo replaced. Well Great! Bessie has been there over a week. It was driven this morning and had "problems." Now they are replacing all of the injectors. I have religiously used Lucas Injector Cleaner and Lube at every fill. Looks like it has not done much. Mileage is now around 28,000.

I am looking to replace Bessie as it is too comber some for us and it unreliable when you use it for business. Unfortunately most of the 30 ft range RV use the same engine that is allegedly updated.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:20 PM   #15
Texas TC
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Default Re: Injector went bad

As all of you know, I really loved my SuperNova for the almost 48000 miles I owned it. I really expected to keep it a long time. My only reservations about the coach was the VT365 engine. As I related earlier in this thread, I had injector issues and some other engine problems while owning the coach.

My wife and I really enjoy RVing and when we were considering trading for our Class A Winnebago, the International engine and it's lack of reliability certainly played into our decision. I considered two coaches to replace the
SuperNova. One was the Winnebago that we bought with a Cummins engine and the other was a Monaco with an International engine (now that Navistar owns Monaco). We decided on the Winnebago primarily to stay away from another International engine. I just felt Cummins made a better, more reliable product. So far, it has been great.

I wish all of you great success in keeping your SuperNova's on the road. It does appear to me that the injectors and turbos are the weak link in the engine design.

Good luck and happy motoring,

TxTC



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Old 07-21-2012, 02:20 PM   #16
nailerman
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Default Re: Injector went bad

We did it again. One the way home to Richmond on Thursday, we dropped another Turbo. This will be replacement number two. What is with IH, can't they build anything like they used to? The reliability over all has been a real problem.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:12 PM   #17
steve.k
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Default Re: Injector went bad

Was just reading some articles on the 6 liter woes! This was off a school bus forum and they mostly say the failures occur around 50000 miles. Usually a injector failure and when they fail they take out turbo. One guy that ran many of these units said the key no success is minimal idle time, don't run low of fuel and early oil changes. He claims that with the design of engine that there is still about 2 quarts of oil left in engine during a change that cannot be removed. It's this contaminated oil that shortens life on oil. He suggests doing changes 1000 or more miles sooner than normal. I beleive oil intervals are at 5000 miles? Just some things to think about.
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