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Old 07-22-2016, 09:21 PM   #1
LTC_R
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Default Reviva Remanufactured VT365

Had a great 3800 mile trip from Central Illinois to DC, then to the Florida Keys and back. Only issue, and I consider it minor, was the generator wouldn't start when we left Florida, tried it several times but no luck (finally figured out there was a breaker tripped in the Distribution Center of my 6400 SN once I was home). Other than that, a great and uneventful trip. A first in my 3 years of owning and traveling in my 6400; that was until I was about 2 hours out from home. The engine ran fine, but just seemed to be losing power. It just didn't have the 'umph' going up hills that it had. I thought nothing of it, being the motor was just about 1 year old out of remanufacture from Reviva with less than 6000 miles on it, it was a hot afternoon and I had been running 70mph for about 8 hours straight. Made it home, great trip. Jump forward a couple of weeks, the wife is headed to Lake Superior in the 6400 and 3 hours from home, it dies. No noise, no warning, no check engine light, just a check AC warning, then full shutdown and coast to the side of the road. I wasn't with her, fortunately for the 6400 - for I would have pulled out my sidearm and shot it where it sat - like any good cavalryman would have done to his wounded steed. Got it towed to the closest international dealer and find out that the remanufactured engine is toast - a broken rocker arm, bent pushrod, scored cylinders, and cam has rough spots on the lobes. There is metal glitter inside the oil pan, and the oil that was drained has a higher soot content than usual, indicating combustion leaks into the crankcase. Not sure of the cause, but it ain’t pretty. The dealer called Reviva and found out that the Warranty registration card never got sent in by the guy who did the replacement, so Reviva is saying too bad for you and not standing behind their rebuild even though it died 16 days after the warranty would have been up, even had the credit card statement showing when I paid the shop for the engine replacement. We explained the problem began while it was under warranty, but Reviva is still saying no registration card, not our problem.

Has anyone else had issues with remanufactured engines? The International Dealer is telling me the best course of action is another replacement. What other rebuilders are out there? I am not too keen on going with another Reviva. Anyone up-engine these to a DT466 or Maxxforce engine?

Frustrated!
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Old 08-20-2016, 04:41 PM   #2
LTC_R
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

An Update....Finally got proof that the warranty registration was sent in from the Ford Dealer that sold us the motor, so Reviva asked for more information on the failure and an inspection. In research with International and other previous owners of my rig, I found that the engine I lost was #4....knowing that, the mechanic began to look for the common cause of all 4 engines failing. All replacement engines were long blocks, so the injectors, HPOP, Turbo, and intake were used on all 4 motors. During the inspection we found the Injectors were fine, the HPOP was replaced just before #3 failed, tested and flowed fine, then we found out that the Turbo had a bad seal and was leaking exhaust into the engine oil, and appears to have been doing so for some time. Knowing that Reviva, of course, said not a warrantable failure, so sorry. The turbo was also the most likely cause of all the other engine failures as well. So now, I am on a quest for a different solution. I am leaning towards a total engine conversion to a DT 466. I have heard of this being done, and read about it on some medium duty truck websites. Does anyone have any experience in this or had it done? Let me know, thanks.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:07 PM   #3
xtream1
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

Sorry to hear about your bad luck lately.

I've been thinking about this same swap. Lately I looked into buying a used 4400 commercial truck, salvaging the driveline, air ride, 10 speed trans, ECM, harness, dual, tanks, etc. My guess was about a $30k total bill running on the road minus parts that I can resell. It's still a thought but considering selling to step into a different level coach.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

Been doing lots of research and searching these past 2 months. I explored lots of options and have come down to 4 that are viable, each with different pros, cons, and costs. Option 1, rebuild what I have back to stock myself, estimated cost about $3700 in parts (rebuild kit, cam, cam bearings, and turbo being the bulk of the costs). Option 2, a rebuild with reliability and some performance enhancements, estimated cost about $6000 in parts (option 1 + ARP Studs, new injectors, BPD Cooling system upgrade). Option 3, remanufactured Long Block and Turbo, estimated cost $6700 in parts (Reman Long Block with ARP Stud, oil cooler, BPD Cooling system upgrade, and turbo). Option 4, Performance Remanufacture, estimated cost $12000 in parts (Asheville "Performance 30"Â*6.0 Powerstroke with Stage 2 Camshaft with O Ringed heads and Studs, 190cc injectors (Stock is 155cc), Garrett Powermax GT3788VA Turbocharger, BPD Cooling System Upgrade). Option 5, DT466 swap, estimated cost "Roughly" $12000 (find and source a wrecked, running IH 4300, with low miles, pray you find a 250 or higher HP motor (still looking), sort through the wiring harness to find everything that you need, send the ECM an TCM out for re-programming, spend time getting it sorted out pulling what you need from the 4300). Option 6, Cummins Swap, estimated cost $7500-$9000, (find a 5.9 cummins gen 2 motor (1998-2002 pre-common rail), order a kit and wiring harness from any of the number of cummins swap sites on the web, and install). Options 1-4 are parts only, no labor. Option 5 & 6 do have some labor estimates fudged in them. The mechanic I am working with will do option 5, but has concerns about the amount of time involved in sorting out the wiring harness (hence the "Roughly"), and after researching the Cummins Swap on the web, I have an appreciation of what he is talking about. Option 6, the wiring is already sorted out, and the time involved should be a little less; read less labor cost.

Pros and cons run the gamut, option 1 - reliability could be an issue, no real insurance we won't get stranded again; option 2 - more reliability, but no power or performance increases for the money spent; option 3 - more reliability, some performance improvements, and labor savings since you don't have the time involved in the rebuild process; option 4 - tons of reliability, lots of performance, lots of cost; option 5 - lot of uncertainty, lots of cost, reliability improvements; option 6 - lots of available engines and support for the swap, alleged reliability improvements, some uncertainty.

So now, I am really looking at option 4, 5, or 6. I've looking for 2 months for a viable DT466 donor - still looking. In 48 hours, I found a 2000 5.9 Cummins 24valve, about 25 minutes away for about $4200. There is a lot of information on doing a ford 6.0 and cummins swap; haven't found anything about putting a cummins in an international chassis. I will probably make a decision in the next week.

Standby for more....
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:39 PM   #5
ChrisW
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

Sorry to hear of your bad luck with the VT365 engine. As a former diesel engine mechanic it is saddening for me to hear of another rip-off by a repair shop and passing the cost to you. The International VT365 is the same as the Ford pickup International 6.0 engine except with some crank mods for higher torque ratings. If you read the forums in the Ford 6.0 diesels you will find catastrophic failures like yours. 2 of my coworkers with the 6.0 has had engine replacements with the cost over 12,000 dollars each. I have rebuilt many engines and turbo's and heavy soot load in the crankcase is not the the turbo seal. Oil pressure in the turbo housing will leak past the seal and you will see oil at the exhaust and oil consumption will be high. High soot load is a stuck open egr valve or an engine out of time. The engine installer is a parts changer and did not diagnose the original failure. Another reputable repair shop could give you a unbiased evaluation of the engine failure. If you repair this engine it needs to be fully tested for exhaust backpressure (plugged muffler which can cause high soot), intake temps, fuel pressure. The only repower that is bulletproof and has aftermarket parts is the Cummins engine.
My neighbor just told me he just replaced a cracked head on his 6.0 Ford for 3700.00.
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Old 11-05-2016, 09:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

Hello LTC - Sorry to hear you had another engine failure. I have done a bit of research on repowering my 6400 as well. The one item that I have a concern about is the body computer. It is my understanding the body computer is programmed specific to engine, transmission, and etc. If this is correct you may have some issues repowering with a DT series engine and getting this computer reprogrammed. Also as an FYI, the DT570 has the same physical dimension as the DT466 and can easily be found in 300, 310, and 330hp. If I am going to go to the trouble of repowering this is the engine I will use. You can locate Day Cab 4400's with auto and 330hp DT570 easy. There are several of them for sale now with a asking price of $17k. I will be happy to share all my findings if you would like.

Tim
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Old 11-06-2016, 08:42 AM   #7
LTC_R
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

I have been researching a swap to a DT466 or Cummins 5.9 since then. Going back and forth with the mechanic at the small shop where it's at quite a lot. I wanted to keep the total costs as low as possible and every option we explored was upwards of $20K all said and done. I found one person online that said they'd actually put a DT466 into a 4200 chassis, and it required ton's of parts (pretty much everything from the firewall to the AC condenser) from a donor vehicle and a full on ECM reprogram to make it all work together. I called him on the phone, and the list went on and on - bottom line I asked him how much did he spend to get it all done - $26000. Too rich for me. The cummins swaps have all the electronics sorted out, but again, lots of parts needed to make it work. My shop mechanic said his best estimate in parts (lots of them used) was $22000. So I opted to keep the VT365 with some modifications. I went with a remanufactured Long Block from Asheville Engines (did the Performance 20 package (bored 20 over and a reground cam)$5495, new Garret Promax Turbo $1065, 30% over injectors, Bullet Proof Diesel heavy duty oil cooler, and BPD Cooling system upgrade. Just got rolling on getting parts ordered, but my estimate is all in I will be in the neighborhood of $13K all said and done. I will post my final tally and details once we are done, should be sometime this week.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:16 PM   #8
Texas TC
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Default Re: Reviva Remanufactured VT365

Have not checked the forum for a while. Really sorry to hear your story. The VT365 was the reason I traded my coach in 2011. I really loved the SuperNova. Drove much better than the Class A pusher that replaced it. I had about 48,000 miles on mine when I had enough of that engine. Most of my issues were with sensors and injectors. Luckily, i had no bottom end issues. The SuperNova would have been a long time keeper if only they had built it on the 4300 chassis with the DT466. Gulf Stream built at least one before they stopped building powered units. I have always wondered who was lucky enough to purchase it.

Good luck getting yours back on the road.



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Old 09-28-2017, 09:07 PM   #9
bhplumber
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LTC_R, How did your engine replacement go. I have an 08 SN 6331 that has about 23K on and Id like to do some preventative tweeks on it this winter. Id also like to get some more reliable power out of it without cranking up the EGT's. Any suggestions? Do you think I should bite the bullet and go straight to arp studs and built it new from there out. I also read on Ashville Engines says the factory pushrods are to long from the start. I haven't got to far into a list but here is my thoughts
Start at the long block
new studs, gaskets
Ashville cam and pushrods
bigger turbo and injectors
bpd egr cooler or delete (I'm still undecided)
bpd oil cooler
cat delete
Tuner
gauges
Anyone please chime in if I'm over thinking this. The SN runs great I would just like some more RELIABLE power and I HATE to break down. My vacations are few and far between not to mention short so I don't want to worry if I'm going to spend it on the roadside.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:52 PM   #10
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Hello bhplumber - I have searched from one end of the internet to the other and have not come across a programmer for the International VT365. Without a programmer and the ability to change such things as fuel injection parameters, turbo boost pressure and engine timing such things as larger turbo and injectors will have little effect. You may actually see a negative affect on hp because the stock ecm will not know how to function with these new components. If this was a 6.0 in a Ford the stock injectors and turbo can accommodate significant hp increases so bigger is not required for more hp. I an not sure what a cam will do without being able to reprogram the ecm, may be worth a try. You can never go wrong with more displacement so you should see a gain by going to an oversized bore.


Have you thought about going to a DT466 or DT570? I believe this is what I am ultimately going to do.
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