Gulf Stream Owners RV Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-07-2019, 02:56 PM   #1
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default Help with 5250 electrics, identify this?

I've got a couple issues. Just really trying to figure out what we have. First of, the truck alternator doesn't charge the coach when the engine is on. So I was tracking down the isolater. Still can't find that, the power cable runs from the truck battery back to the coach batter compartment and no isolater.

But I did find this part, which I'm assuming is the emergency start relay, which also doesn't work. Big starter solenoid/relay, coach battery voltage on one terminal, truck battery voltage on the other. All it does is buzzzzz when you press the emergency start switch.

Anybody have any idea where the isolater may be located? And is it an actual "relay" system as opposed to a dual diode solid state type?

Like I said, I tried tracing the power cable out, but it goes straight back to the coach battery compartment to this device, and does a bit of looping, and after that there's no telling. Very hard to follow where anything goes.

Any help on this would be much appreciated, but actually we can live without it as long as everything is working.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pic1.jpg (284.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg pic2.jpg (251.5 KB, 6 views)
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 03:06 PM   #2
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default Should have looked first I guess.....

Now sure how it's hooked up, but the small, potted, black plastic seems to be the isolater part of the "system" and the solenoid does seem to be the emergency start relay.

Did a search for the part listed (provided here, I forgot by who, sorry) 00-00629-120, and that's the info that pops up. And the picture of the solenoid is listed as the emergency start.

Not sure how it's all connected up, but that is what it seems to be.

Which, oddly enough, looks absolutely nothing like the picture is the user manual for the RV.
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 11:32 PM   #3
THenne1713
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Memphis
Posts: 182
Send a message via AIM to THenne1713 Send a message via MSN to THenne1713 Send a message via Yahoo to THenne1713
Default

LOOKS RIGHT TO ME; METER/ TEST LIGHT SHOULD TEST/ VERIFY IN MINUTES? If the small wire on solenoid has power, the voltage between the two large terminals should be ZERO and each large terminal to ground should be exactly same? If in douby, remove wire from 1-large terminal, and retest (protect loose wire from grounding/ short)
__________________
THenne1713
99-Conquest 6266, E450SD, 6.8, 2v, V-10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 11:45 AM   #4
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

Thanks for the input. if it ever stops raining again, i can check it out....
Theres also three large (physically and electrically) DC breakers down there. i think 100, 80 and 50 amp. Any idea exactly what those are right off?
Im guessing one is used in the emergency start, one from the converter, and maybe one to the coach?
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 01:07 PM   #5
THenne1713
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Memphis
Posts: 182
Send a message via AIM to THenne1713 Send a message via MSN to THenne1713 Send a message via Yahoo to THenne1713
Default re: DC Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microguy View Post
Thanks for the input. if it ever stops raining again, i can check it out....
Theres also three large (physically and electrically) DC breakers down there. i think 100, 80 and 50 amp. Any idea exactly what those are right off?
Im guessing one is used in the emergency start, one from the converter, and maybe one to the coach?
ES, (Coach= Converter), and 50 (or 80, if Converter is 50?) probably to the Hydraulics?
__________________
THenne1713
99-Conquest 6266, E450SD, 6.8, 2v, V-10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 08:55 PM   #6
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

Converter can be anything from 30 to 80 amps depending on model number. Have to get to it to see exactly which one we have. All I know is Intelipower 9200 series.

FYI, allelectronics.com has some great little panel meters at great prices. Small as the 7 seg display, just apply voltage and you have a volt meter. They also have some large shunts (50/100 amp range) for measuring DC currents.

Im in the process of adding several to monitor everything. Got a cheap clamp on AC amp meter at harbor freight to measure AC current, so the coil will get mounted around the ATS and routed up to another panel meter.

(the lights on the monitor panel are better than nothing, but I want details...)

We"re in the process of trying to figure out exactly what does what. What breakers control what devices. GS doesnt make it easy, like breakers connected inline with other breakers. So one outlet may be controlled by three breakers. Then theres the fuses....

oh well, something to do if it stops raining long enough.
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 07:16 AM   #7
Restorium
Senior Member
 
Restorium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microguy View Post
I've got a couple issues. Just really trying to figure out what we have. First of, the truck alternator doesn't charge the coach when the engine is on. So I was tracking down the isolater. Still can't find that, the power cable runs from the truck battery back to the coach batter compartment and no isolater.

But I did find this part, which I'm assuming is the emergency start relay, which also doesn't work. Big starter solenoid/relay, coach battery voltage on one terminal, truck battery voltage on the other. All it does is buzzzzz when you press the emergency start switch.

Anybody have any idea where the isolater may be located? And is it an actual "relay" system as opposed to a dual diode solid state type?

Like I said, I tried tracing the power cable out, but it goes straight back to the coach battery compartment to this device, and does a bit of looping, and after that there's no telling. Very hard to follow where anything goes.

Any help on this would be much appreciated, but actually we can live without it as long as everything is working.
That emergency start solenoid is also the solenoid that controls the charging of the coach batteries while the engine is running. If it's bad you found your problem.
When replacing it don't replace it with a starter solenoid. You need one like a starter solenoid but it must be one that is made to be continuously on. They call it a 'continuous duty cycle' solenoid.
If you need help finding that I can provide a link to it.
Restorium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 09:02 PM   #8
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

Thanks, but beat you to it. I used the link you posted in another thread and just purchased it. I think the one in there as good, but might as well replace it and start fresh, and keep the old one as an emergency spare. Thanks for that link.

I also used GeorgeV's two pdf files (HUGE help) to identify the isolater electronics. got that ordered too. I believe thats (part of) the problem.

But i think im going solid state. This system bugs me.

Under normal conditions, I guess it works. Truck charges truck battery when engine running, when battery is charged, relay kicks in and charges house battery. On shore power, power converter charges house battery. When emergency start is pressed, relay kicks in, connects both batteries and you can start the truck off the house battery.

Or...... if youre on shore power and you start the truck, youre basically connecting everything to everything else. Both chargers charging both batteries, then that relay kicks in an both systems are connected together. (or when its running and the emergency start is pressed).

I need to look into it more, but Im going to try a solid state version.

(Unless Im missing something)
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 07:31 AM   #9
Restorium
Senior Member
 
Restorium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microguy View Post
Thanks, but beat you to it. I used the link you posted in another thread and just purchased it. I think the one in there as good, but might as well replace it and start fresh, and keep the old one as an emergency spare. Thanks for that link.

I also used GeorgeV's two pdf files (HUGE help) to identify the isolater electronics. got that ordered too. I believe thats (part of) the problem.

But i think im going solid state. This system bugs me.

Under normal conditions, I guess it works. Truck charges truck battery when engine running, when battery is charged, relay kicks in and charges house battery. On shore power, power converter charges house battery. When emergency start is pressed, relay kicks in, connects both batteries and you can start the truck off the house battery.

Or...... if youre on shore power and you start the truck, youre basically connecting everything to everything else. Both chargers charging both batteries, then that relay kicks in an both systems are connected together. (or when its running and the emergency start is pressed).

I need to look into it more, but Im going to try a solid state version.

(Unless Im missing something)
You're welcome. Thanks for reporting back. Nice to know that someone was helped by that thread. Makes it all worthwhile.
On the relay;
You said; All it does is buzzzzz when you press the emergency start switch.

It's bad no doubt. Throw it out so it doesn't mess you up in the future. Make some notes and put them in your records.

The engineers made these circuits like that so you don't catch fire. Lots of relays to not overburden the switches. Your troubleshooting was successful because of the 'buzzing'. With electronics you probably still would be hunting for the problem. Or have to replace a $100+ controller. Be very careful if you engineer new circuits without relays. That's how people have car fires.
Restorium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 03:22 PM   #10
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

Yeah, Im with ya there on the modifications. Havent ordered the solid state stuff yet. I need to do some more thinking, tracing wires and stuff. For one, I loose at least a diode drop going in. I need to look at stuff, maybe there's an input/output I can use that will prevent things connecting together. Like an input on the converter I can connect to the "ignition" that will shut it down as soon as the key is turned. Simple, effective.

They "should" never be connected like that, but I know Murphy's law better than I should.

Oh, received the new solenoid. Boy that was fast.

And the Intelitec controller was also bad, still waiting on that. Alternator was up and running, but no 12V on the solenoid.
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2019, 03:35 PM   #11
Restorium
Senior Member
 
Restorium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microguy View Post
Yeah, Im with ya there on the modifications. Havent ordered the solid state stuff yet. I need to do some more thinking, tracing wires and stuff. For one, I loose at least a diode drop going in. I need to look at stuff, maybe there's an input/output I can use that will prevent things connecting together. Like an input on the converter I can connect to the "ignition" that will shut it down as soon as the key is turned. Simple, effective.

They "should" never be connected like that, but I know Murphy's law better than I should.

Oh, received the new solenoid. Boy that was fast.

And the Intelitec controller was also bad, still waiting on that. Alternator was up and running, but no 12V on the solenoid.
Put a manual switch on the activation wire for that new solenoid and you will control when they connect. I have mine like that.
Restorium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 11:52 AM   #12
CAVSCOUT
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4
Default RV Gremlins

Iím not an expert unless you count a YouTube Ranger being as such.......maybe a helpful link.

https://youtu.be/wc_vGNHhAYE
CAVSCOUT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 04:23 PM   #13
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

Hey, nothing wrong with youtube for info and ideas. I will do it differently next time I replace the awnings though....

They have a newer model truck in the video. But according to the vid, the two batteries are connected together the minute you turn the key. With mine, there is a bit of electronics that only activates the solenoid when the alternator is putting out about 14.4 volts. (both items need replacing, the electronics and the solenoid)
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 04:50 PM   #14
THenne1713
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Memphis
Posts: 182
Send a message via AIM to THenne1713 Send a message via MSN to THenne1713 Send a message via Yahoo to THenne1713
Default

If the solenoid gives a funny buzzzzz, then check CONTROL voltage to the SMALL wire on the solenoid; if it is low, solenoid will chatter; bad battery or corroded connection? Otherwise, might just be bad solenoid?
__________________
THenne1713
99-Conquest 6266, E450SD, 6.8, 2v, V-10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 09:28 AM   #15
Ed Schmitt
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 10
Default

might check out thread "House battery charging problem" same problem. The 5 am fuse
fixed my problem. but my solenoid did work.
Ed Schmitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 03:38 PM   #16
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

Yeah.... I just found that 5A fuse. But everything was dead, so it all got replaced.

Working as it was designed now. I think the solenoid may have been OK, but the intelitec "isolater" was bad, I think thats what took the fuse out.
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2019, 10:49 AM   #17
Ed Schmitt
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 10
Default

where did you find the intelitec isolater, is it the black box next to the solenoid?
thanks....Ed
Ed Schmitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2019, 11:14 AM   #18
Restorium
Senior Member
 
Restorium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Schmitt View Post
where did you find the intelitec isolater, is it the black box next to the solenoid?
thanks....Ed
You can see it in the picture he posted. It's the box the wires from the solenoid run to. My motor home doesn't have that, just one wire to activate the solenoid with no isolator.
Restorium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2019, 05:35 PM   #19
Microguy
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
Default

On our GS, theres no box, just a "L" bracket mounted to some framework in the battery compartment.
If you look at that photo, theres a small black plastic box next to the solenoid, thats it.

yep, not what I was expecting either.
Microguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 07:00 AM   #20
Ed Schmitt
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 10
Default

that was my guess....thanks Ed
Ed Schmitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×