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Old 06-26-2005, 11:37 AM   #1
gsadmin
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Default Petition Gulf Stream Coach for complete technical docs

For a few months now I (and others) have tried unsuccessfully to get Gulf Stream to give to us wiring diagrams, plumbing diagrams, and the like to us as owners so that we might be able to make safe repairs on our coaches. This is not an unreasonable request. Many other manufacturers (Winnebago, Alfa, Country Coach) are doing this for their owners.

Now, since I feel they have taken such a hard stance and so many of you have expressed to me a desire to have this documentation, I have put together a petition we can all sign and then sdubmit to Gulf Stream to show that we are united in purpose and that they need to listen to their owners.

Please read this petition, and if you agree, please sign it.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/G ... -Tech-Docs
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- Added hard-wired Pro-Sine 1000 Inverter
- Converted batteries to 4x6V from 2x12V
- Added Bully air-horn
- Added Safe-T-Steer

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Old 07-05-2005, 05:30 PM   #2
gsadmin
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Woohoo!

We're 10% of the way there in just over one week!!!

Get the word out...Let's get'er done!
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2004 Ultra Supreme Class A 30'
- Added hard-wired Pro-Sine 1000 Inverter
- Converted batteries to 4x6V from 2x12V
- Added Bully air-horn
- Added Safe-T-Steer

SLC, UT
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Old 11-03-2006, 12:31 PM   #3
afterhours
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Default Re: Petition Gulf Stream Coach for complete technical docs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsadmin
For a few months now I (and others) have tried unsuccessfully to get Gulf Stream to give to us wiring diagrams, plumbing diagrams, and the like to us as owners so that we might be able to make safe repairs on our coaches. This is not an unreasonable request. Many other manufacturers (Winnebago, Alfa, Country Coach) are doing this for their owners.

Now, since I feel they have taken such a hard stance and so many of you have expressed to me a desire to have this documentation, I have put together a petition we can all sign and then sdubmit to Gulf Stream to show that we are united in purpose and that they need to listen to their owners.

Please read this petition, and if you agree, please sign it.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/G ... -Tech-Docs
You are assuming they have it

Seriously, from the wiring routing I've traced, I'm not convinced they bother to draft their wiring or plumbing beyond the back of a napkin. Don't get me wrong, we haven't yet had an electrical fire, but I'm not certain GS has scanned blueprints for each model they manufacture -- particularly build-to-order units.
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:54 AM   #4
GStream40
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The prints do exist, believe me. In the last couple of weeks I sent an email to Gulf Stream Coach detailing a problem that I had experienced on the rear tail lights and explaining some additional 110 volt wiring/outlet that I wanted to add to the front of the coach.

The vice president of operations sent me the prints specific to my coach in PDF format for the following:

1) 12v Coach Panel
2) 12v Distribution Label
3) 110v Bkr Panel
4) Dash Harness
5) Frt Clearance lts. Harness
6) Headlight Harness
7) Rear Cap Harness
TV Lockout Wiring

I received 8 prints with no problem that I needed. I gave them no hassle and they gave me none. Like I said, the prints are specific to my coach. They did state that they would NOT give me the complete prints for the coach but did provide what I needed and then some.

Oh, before you ask, they do have a copyright warning right on them.

Ron
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:44 PM   #5
gsadmin
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Gotta protect those trade secrets they must be stealing from Winnebago with the prints they so stupidly leave on their web site for all to access...

Personally, I would rather not have to wait until I have an issue to try and get a hold of someone at Gulfstream to make a fix or modification. What if I am in the middle of Death Valley on a Saturday (as my mom currently is for a 49er encampment) and I have a breakdown or a simple blown fuse? Do I drive into Pahrump on Monday, call Gulftream, pay to overnight them and then get to work on Tuesday...please...

Seems like if they have a copyright notification and they are willing to give out the prints as needed, aren't they still getting them out into the public domain. What would be the harm of releasing them all to a verified owner with both the copyright as well as a personal NDA from whoever they release them to?.

BTW, have you ever taken the cover of your home furnace...right there on the back is a wiring schematic...hmmm.
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2004 Ultra Supreme Class A 30'
- Added hard-wired Pro-Sine 1000 Inverter
- Converted batteries to 4x6V from 2x12V
- Added Bully air-horn
- Added Safe-T-Steer

SLC, UT
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:21 PM   #6
GStream40
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Like I said, I got what I needed and more. The prints do exist as I stated because I have some for my coach provided by Gulf Stream.

So that also disproves the idea that the prints do not exist and it also proves that Gulf Stream will release prints when needed by a specific request of a customer/owner, at least in my case I had no problem.

Does every other coach manufacturer provide ALL the prints on a website?? Tiffin, Fleetwood, Thor, Newmar, Monaco, Etc ??

I have only heard of Alfa and Winnebago, but only seen Winniebago.

Ron
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:59 PM   #7
gsadmin
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so far Alfa and Winnebago are the true pioneers. I do not need to have electronic versions of the docs, I just want it in my coach to make my life easier if/when I have a breakdown of some sort (like electrical issues...but those never happen do they <wink wink> ). Also, whenever I want to mod my coach it would be great to have them on hand.

My point is, why should I have to have an issue/problem to receive them? I mean, do I have to wait until I have a breakdown in every system of my coach so they can ration them out to me piece by piece until I get the full set? That seems ridiculous.

The overarching point here is that if you have them at your disposal, in electronic or print form, what logical reason is there not to make them available to your owner base if they so desire them?

Now that the reason that GS may not have the drawings has been disproved (at least for one coach year/model) here are the remaining reasons and the logic (or lack thereof) behind them:

1. Trade Secrets - yes, the secret sauce of 12V wiring in an RV. If this were truly the issue, then they would not give them out to anyone, anytime. And, copyright restrictions and NDAs can protect them legally anyway.

2. Liability - If this were the case, they could not give anyone ANY documentation. Additionally, most documentation clearly has a limitation of liability clause in the foreward.

3. Protecting the Dealer Network - This is probably one major reason for not doing it. They want to protect both their aftermarket parts and dealer service business. This seems strange to me though since I have heard from more than one RV dealer complaining about working as a Gulf Stream service center and doing warranty work, etc. as well as them having just as much problems getting coach docs from Gulf Stream.

4. Not truly understanding customer service - This is really what it comes down to I think. A combination of this and old school customer service practices that were a product of big company arrogance. Right now, it must be known to Gulf Stream that there is a public relations/customer issue with this...the smartest thing they could do is turn it around and be a huge hero...geez, they would probably even garner an editorial or two in some of the big time RV rags for how revolutionary they are in the industry by taking this step (even though they were not the first).

As I have said many times, I really love my RV, I just want to have the piece of mind to know all there is to know so I can be self reliant. I have already been bitten twice where I had to inspect each and every fuse to find the blown one...that alone is unacceptable.

We are now at signature 179...just 21 to go before this is complete and I send it all to the Gulf Stream brass. At that point I feel I have done all I can do and if it is not clear to them by then, I doubt it will ever be.

Peace out...
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Happy GulfStreamer
2004 Ultra Supreme Class A 30'
- Added hard-wired Pro-Sine 1000 Inverter
- Converted batteries to 4x6V from 2x12V
- Added Bully air-horn
- Added Safe-T-Steer

SLC, UT
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Old 11-04-2006, 09:51 PM   #8
Doug13589
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Default prints

I agree some prints would be nice while trying to figure out what goes where. But while you trace out pipes and wires you also learn a lot about how your machine is put together.
I learned that there is a baffel in the furnce that cuts down the air to the bathroom ,I learned that the drivers seat does NOT go back far enough to be hit by the slide but the back of the seat has to be up right or it will be ripped off.
I learned that the oil cooler lines are routed too close to a pully and you can lose most of your anti freeze.Actully you can lose all of it .. I learned that the coolant expansion tank can be distroyed by sun light
The best part of having prints is that you can find things faster and remember them easier.
My 87 Holiday Rambler had all kinds of prints and what I didn't get with it when I got it Holiday Rambler sent me, which I needed as it had many more bells and whistles than my Sun Sport
If I had some prints I could enjoy the Sun Sport a lot more as it takes time to figure things out some time a lot of time
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:10 PM   #9
Don Kaiser
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Default wiring diagrams

I have an older 1994 senic crusser and im having some electrical problems. I am a ASE certified teck and own a NAPA auto care center so I am qualified to work on my rv but it is hard to make repairs when you done were to look. If i can get full diagrams ford or gm way not gulfstream.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:37 PM   #10
fatboylust
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Default Diagrams

Don, your only hope is to email Mr. Scott Pullin and ask him to send you copies of what he has. When I asked about my 2002 he didn't have diagrams but sent me a troubleshooting manual which will be way better than nothing. Here is his address:

spullin@gulfstreamcoach.com

Good luck,
FBL
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