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Old 02-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #1
dcwinters
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Default TS Performance Power Play MP-8 for VT365

Anyone that has a SuperNova or Super C on a International chassis and VT365 engine might want what I have.

I have a used unit, good to go. I took it off my Endura before I sold it. This thing worked great. 30% HP gain.

Send me an email if you are interested. I paid over $400 for this. I'll take $200.

[email protected]
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:35 PM   #2
aaronschiada
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I just got off the phone with the head mechanic at my local international dealer. He told me...don’t do any motor mods on this motor. This motor is rated for what I comes with stock. He said if you start adding power, you will greatly increase the possibility of failure on this motor. He said the motor is a middle of the road motor. It’s not the best, it’s not the worst, but definitely keep it stock. Just relaying the message.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:24 PM   #3
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Doug, I'll take it. I'll email you to get contact details.
Thanks
Mike
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Old 03-03-2018, 03:04 PM   #4
BadX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronschiada View Post
I just got off the phone with the head mechanic at my local international dealer. He told me...don’t do any motor mods on this motor. This motor is rated for what I comes with stock. He said if you start adding power, you will greatly increase the possibility of failure on this motor. He said the motor is a middle of the road motor. It’s not the best, it’s not the worst, but definitely keep it stock. Just relaying the message.
Actually the 6.0 in these are the same 6.0's in Ford F250 and F350 trucks but somehow our engines don't blow the head gaskets like the Fords do. I had just got rid of a F350 that had a 6.0, 3 blown head gaskets in 3 years(it was completely stock) and didn't know when we purchased the RV it had the same engine and when I found out I was like oh crap here we go again. After some research I found this version isn't prone to the head gaskets blowing and have had heard of several people increasing timing and boost to up their performance with no issues.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:22 AM   #5
rld63
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I have had a MP8 on my engine for years and never a problem. I just have to remember to turn off when I am doing emissions testing. The power change is not dramatic but noticeable. I don't track gas mileage so I can't tell you if that improved.
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2008 SuperNova 6400 Grand Hotel
Pulling a Jeep Unlimited Rubicon
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:26 AM   #6
aaronschiada
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Actually the 6.0 in these are the same 6.0's in Ford F250 and F350 trucks but somehow our engines don't blow the head gaskets like the Fords do. I had just got rid of a F350 that had a 6.0, 3 blown head gaskets in 3 years(it was completely stock) and didn't know when we purchased the RV it had the same engine and when I found out I was like oh crap here we go again. After some research I found this version isn't prone to the head gaskets blowing and have had heard of several people increasing timing and boost to up their performance with no issues.
im not a ford guy or a diesel guy for that matter...i was just told that the international is tuned way down from what the ford version is. when people start putting more HP to them, they start having problems. again, just what im told. for every guy that has zero problems, theres another guy with a blown head gasket. i know there area few guys out there that you can actually send your ECM out to and they will flash it with a new safe program that gives you 50 more HP an better fuel efficiency, as well as do an EGR delete which i hear is very important and a big reason why these motors fail.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:01 PM   #7
SlimTim
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International built the 6.0 for Ford and the VT365 and Ford 6.0 do share many common parts. Unfortunately for us Supernova owners one part that is not common is the ECM logic. This is unfortunate because it excludes us from using the multitude of Ford 6.0 engine programmers currently on the market.


The comment about the VT365 being tuned way down is true in some regards, but not when talking about the VT365 in the Supernovas. I have listed the Supernova VT365 and Ford 6.0 specs below.

International VT365 as configured in the Gulfstream Supernovas
Peak HP: 300 @ 3000 RPM
Peak Torque: 530 lb-ft @ 1800 RPM
Ford 6.0
Peak HP: 325 @ 3300 RPM
Peak Torque: 560 lb-ft @ 2000 RPM (2003-2004)
Peak Torque: 570 lb-ft @ 2000 RPM (2005-2007)


If you look at the School Bus forums you will see that the VT365 did have its share of issues, along with the Cummins ISB, DT460, Cat's and etc. However, I am a strong believer that both the VT365 and Ford 6.0 are good engines that just suffered from a bad exhaust gas recirculation and oil cooler design. If you look at how the oil to water cooler is key to the EGR, turbo, HPOP and injectors you may agree.

In regards to deleting the EGR, it may, or may not help. The EGR recirculates a portion of the engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders thereby diluting the O2 in the incoming air stream. This reduction in O2 lowers combustion heat and peak combustion temperatures and this intern reduces NOx. NOx is primarily produced at high cylinder temperatures and pressures. So when the engine control module (ECM) detects conditions conducive to creating NOx it sends a signal to open the EGR valve to cool down the combustion. It’s impotent to understand a key responsibility of the EGR system is to assure the oxygen-to-fuel ratio is suitable at all engine operating conditions to meet performance and emissions objectives. And that the total mass of oxygen trapped in the cylinder is appropriate for the fuel injection quantity. So, removing the EGR does not necessarily mean you will get more HP or lower your exhaust temperatures or extend the life of your engine. Assuming your EGR system was working correctly prior to installing the EGR delete, you may only get a check engine light for all the money you have spent. However, installing the delete will assure you won’t have to worry about an EGR cooler or EGR valve failure in the future. Just be mindful deleting the EGR is illegal in all 50 states.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:02 PM   #8
aaronschiada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
International built the 6.0 for Ford and the VT365 and Ford 6.0 do share many common parts. Unfortunately for us Supernova owners one part that is not common is the ECM logic. This is unfortunate because it excludes us from using the multitude of Ford 6.0 engine programmers currently on the market.


The comment about the VT365 being tuned way down is true in some regards, but not when talking about the VT365 in the Supernovas. I have listed the Supernova VT365 and Ford 6.0 specs below.

International VT365 as configured in the Gulfstream Supernovas
Peak HP: 300 @ 3000 RPM
Peak Torque: 530 lb-ft @ 1800 RPM
Ford 6.0
Peak HP: 325 @ 3300 RPM
Peak Torque: 560 lb-ft @ 2000 RPM (2003-2004)
Peak Torque: 570 lb-ft @ 2000 RPM (2005-2007)


If you look at the School Bus forums you will see that the VT365 did have its share of issues, along with the Cummins ISB, DT460, Cat's and etc. However, I am a strong believer that both the VT365 and Ford 6.0 are good engines that just suffered from a bad exhaust gas recirculation and oil cooler design. If you look at how the oil to water cooler is key to the EGR, turbo, HPOP and injectors you may agree.

In regards to deleting the EGR, it may, or may not help. The EGR recirculates a portion of the engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders thereby diluting the O2 in the incoming air stream. This reduction in O2 lowers combustion heat and peak combustion temperatures and this intern reduces NOx. NOx is primarily produced at high cylinder temperatures and pressures. So when the engine control module (ECM) detects conditions conducive to creating NOx it sends a signal to open the EGR valve to cool down the combustion. It’s impotent to understand a key responsibility of the EGR system is to assure the oxygen-to-fuel ratio is suitable at all engine operating conditions to meet performance and emissions objectives. And that the total mass of oxygen trapped in the cylinder is appropriate for the fuel injection quantity. So, removing the EGR does not necessarily mean you will get more HP or lower your exhaust temperatures or extend the life of your engine. Assuming your EGR system was working correctly prior to installing the EGR delete, you may only get a check engine light for all the money you have spent. However, installing the delete will assure you won’t have to worry about an EGR cooler or EGR valve failure in the future. Just be mindful deleting the EGR is illegal in all 50 states.
This is a great explanation. I found this ad and called the guy. very knowledgeable guy...his name is Rob.
http://www.fleetservicenorthwest.com...EGRDelete.aspx
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:45 PM   #9
SlimTim
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Originally Posted by aaronschiada View Post
This is a great explanation. I found this ad and called the guy. very knowledgeable guy...his name is Rob.
http://www.fleetservicenorthwest.com...EGRDelete.aspx
aaronschiada - Are you located in the Portland, OR area? I am asking because I see Fleet Services Northwest is close by. If you are located in the Pacific Northwest maybe we can get together and talk about our Supernovas.

Just as an FYI, I have the Bullet Proof Diesel EGR and oil cooler on my 2010 6400.

Best Regards - Tim
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:51 PM   #10
aaronschiada
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Hey bud, no I’m in SoCal. Doesn’t mean we can’t talk Supernovas though...haha. Did that Bulletproof setup bolt right in? Did you do an ECM upgrade of any kind? Are you liking it?
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:34 PM   #11
SlimTim
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Originally Posted by aaronschiada View Post
Hey bud, no I’m in SoCal. Doesn’t mean we can’t talk Supernovas though...haha. Did that Bulletproof setup bolt right in? Did you do an ECM upgrade of any kind? Are you liking it?
The EGR is a direct bolt on. The oil cooler requires some fabrication, but it is minimal.

I did the EGR, HPOP snap-to-connect (STC) update kit and oil cooler all at the same time. In addition I installed a EGT probe while working on the engine.

I have not been able to locate anybody to do an ECM upgrade. I hove spoken to many people that said they could. But once they figured out the engine already had 300hp they said there was nothing they could do. However I just posted on a company called Hypermax Engineering. Hypermax offers a true programmer for the VT365's and I am going to try one of these as soon as the wife gives me the ok to spend the money.

Tim
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:14 PM   #12
aaronschiada
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The EGR is a direct bolt on. The oil cooler requires some fabrication, but it is minimal.

I did the EGR, HPOP snap-to-connect (STC) update kit and oil cooler all at the same time. In addition I installed a EGT probe while working on the engine.

I have not been able to locate anybody to do an ECM upgrade. I hove spoken to many people that said they could. But once they figured out the engine already had 300hp they said there was nothing they could do. However I just posted on a company called Hypermax Engineering. Hypermax offers a true programmer for the VT365's and I am going to try one of these as soon as the wife gives me the ok to spend the money.

Tim
I guess I want to know what all those additions do for the motor? Again, I’m not a diesel guy...I can talk blower motors all day long...just not up to speed on diesels. I’m also told that the motor is actually rated at 250HP...not 300. Rob told me to talk to ECM Performance. I called them and they do the ECM reprogram. It’s $3200 from them. But they say if you are going for more HP, they recommend you delete or shut off the EGR, and install an exhaust temp gauge.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:16 PM   #13
SlimTim
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Originally Posted by aaronschiada View Post
I guess I want to know what all those additions do for the motor? Again, I’m not a diesel guy...I can talk blower motors all day long...just not up to speed on diesels. I’m also told that the motor is actually rated at 250HP...not 300. Rob told me to talk to ECM Performance. I called them and they do the ECM reprogram. It’s $3200 from them. But they say if you are going for more HP, they recommend you delete or shut off the EGR, and install an exhaust temp gauge.
The Bullet Proof Diesel EGR does nothing for the engine other than provide better reliability. If the stock EGR cooler ruptures you will start to consume engine coolant, possibly produce white smoke out the exhaust, overheat the engine and if the rupture is really bad you may even hydraulically lock up the engine.

The HPOP clip does nothing for the engine other than provide better reliability. The stock clip that holds the High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) oil outlet pipe in place can become detached. This allows the oil tube to back out and the HPOP is not able to build up oil pressure. Once this happens the engine will not start or is very hard to start.

The Bullet Proof Diesel oil cooler does nothing for the engine other than provide better reliability. The VT365/6.0 use a oil to water cooler. On the oil side, hot oil comes up from the engine oil pump and enters the cooler to reduce the oil temperature. The cooled oil then leaves the cooler and enters the HPOP. From the HPOP the oil gets directed to the turbo as well as the fuel injectors. On the water side water passes through the cooler to cool the oil and then into the EGR cooler. Unfortunately if the water side of the oil cooler becomes plugged it can cause multiple issues. 1 - once the water side of the cooler becomes plugged there is limited coolant going to the EGR cooler. With insufficient coolant going to the EGR cooler the cooler tubes get to hot and rupture. 2 - The exhaust gases passing through the cooler or not cooled sufficiently possibly causing other issues within the engine. 3 - The oil passing through the cooler is not cooled sufficiently. This causes superheated oil to enter the HPOP, turbo and injectors causing failures in all three of these components. If I recall correctly the HPOP puts out around 3000 psi so it is important to keep the oil going into the pump at the lowest operating temperature. The Bullet Proof Diesel oil cooler replaces the water to oil cooler with a air to oil cooler. This allows the oil entering the HPOP to stay at a much lower temperature as well as maintains a constant flow of coolant to the EGR cooler.

I am not sure what to say about the HP rating other than the GS Supernova brochure states 300hp, the International spec sheet with torque and HP curves show 300hp and when I go to International and they look up my engine they come back with a 300hp VT365 engine. However unless somebody wants to put their RV on a dyno we wont know for sure.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:27 PM   #14
aaronschiada
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Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
The Bullet Proof Diesel EGR does nothing for the engine other than provide better reliability. If the stock EGR cooler ruptures you will start to consume engine coolant, possibly produce white smoke out the exhaust, overheat the engine and if the rupture is really bad you may even hydraulically lock up the engine.

The HPOP clip does nothing for the engine other than provide better reliability. The stock clip that holds the High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) oil outlet pipe in place can become detached. This allows the oil tube to back out and the HPOP is not able to build up oil pressure. Once this happens the engine will not start or is very hard to start.

The Bullet Proof Diesel oil cooler does nothing for the engine other than provide better reliability. The VT365/6.0 use a oil to water cooler. On the oil side, hot oil comes up from the engine oil pump and enters the cooler to reduce the oil temperature. The cooled oil then leaves the cooler and enters the HPOP. From the HPOP the oil gets directed to the turbo as well as the fuel injectors. On the water side water passes through the cooler to cool the oil and then into the EGR cooler. Unfortunately if the water side of the oil cooler becomes plugged it can cause multiple issues. 1 - once the water side of the cooler becomes plugged there is limited coolant going to the EGR cooler. With insufficient coolant going to the EGR cooler the cooler tubes get to hot and rupture. 2 - The exhaust gases passing through the cooler or not cooled sufficiently possibly causing other issues within the engine. 3 - The oil passing through the cooler is not cooled sufficiently. This causes superheated oil to enter the HPOP, turbo and injectors causing failures in all three of these components. If I recall correctly the HPOP puts out around 3000 psi so it is important to keep the oil going into the pump at the lowest operating temperature. The Bullet Proof Diesel oil cooler replaces the water to oil cooler with a air to oil cooler. Tis allows the oil entering the HPOP to stay at a much lower temperature as well as maintains a constant flow of coolant to the EGR cooler.

I am not sure what to say about the HP rating other than the GS Supernova brochure states 300hp, the International spec sheet with torque and HP curves show 300hp and when I go to International and they look up my engine they come back with a 300hp VT365 engine. However unless somebody wants to put their RV on a dyno we wont know for sure.
i appreciate the break down bud. great info.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/gen...ine-specs.html
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