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Old 12-11-2013, 06:52 PM   #1
howermj
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Default Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

Hello all,

As I was poring over my engine documentation, I found this little nifty piece of info:

CUMMINS RECALL NO. C0713. CERTAIN ISL CUMMINS CM850 DIESEL ENGINES PRODUCED FOR RECREATIONAL VEHICLE APPLICATIONS BETWEEN OCTOBER 17, 2005, AND APRIL 18, 2006, WITH ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER RANGE FROM 46543077 TO 46603939. THE CONNECTING ROD CONTAINS A MACHINING DEFECT IN THE WRIST PIN BUSHING OF THE ROD THAT COULD CAUSE SEIZURE OF THE PISTON PIN. IF ALLOWED TO PROGRESS, THIS COULD LEAD TO ENGINE FAILURE WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF THE ROD RUPTURING THE BLOCK CAVITY. OIL AND DEBRIS ON THE ROADWAY COULD RESULT IN A VEHICLE CRASH.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/probl ... Version=NO

I have the ISL 400 in my 2006 TM -- not sure if I'm affected yet. Has this affected anybody here? If so, how? The fix in the recall isn't really a fix--it's just a computer reprogram and a "warning light" on the dash that tells you when your engine is about to explode.

Any thoughts?

v/r
MJH
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:57 PM   #2
RayChez1
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

It is true that Cummins had problems with a certain series of the ISL engine. The wrist pins were not machined right and they had several failures. Seems like I read this several years back and every time I tried to warn RVers about it on RV.NET forum the moderator Johnny Torrez would delete my posts. He thought I was just trying to bash Cummins which was not true, but I felt that RVers should have knowledge as to what problems they could have if they bought a coach costing lots of money and getting one of those engines.

Yes, it is true that the recall was more cosmetic then actually repairing the problem. A warning light was installed to let you know when the engine was going to blow up.

I believe Cummins was not sure exactly which engines were effected and that is why instead of taking the whole series manufactured within that period, they decided to gamble and just take a chance. IF it blew up they would fix it. IF it didn't they were that much ahead.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:33 PM   #3
howermj
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

Well, it was just confirmed -- my engine is one of the ones under the recall. Frustrating! I specifically went looking for a Cummins 400 because they stand behind their products.... guess not so. I'm not sure how this recall flew under my radar. I would have never bought this specific coach if I knew it was an issue.

The "warning light" fix is a crock of crap -- and since it is out of warranty, I'm still facing a possible $10-$40K fix if it fails.

I'm not sure what to do now. Class-action lawsuit? Would an extended warranty cover something like this, or do they just cover the house? I've never been a fan of warranties, but I can't risk the financial loss considering I bought the coach to work from in 2014, and I expect to put 20-40K miles on it each year.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:56 PM   #4
11B
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

I had my local Freightliner/Cummins dealer do my Recall on my 400 ISL. They had it a little over two weeks and I have the paperwork to show what they did but they did NOT install any warning light on my dash.
I was told by the Cummins folks when I called in that the problem would raise its ugly head in the first 15,000 miles if it were to happen at all based on the data they had on engines that the pins gave out on.

I barely now have 15000 miles on my unit but have been around Cummins in the business world for 30 years and have no doubt that if the fix of any type was done and the engine goes south they would stand behind it 100%.

My personal thoughts ( and I read RV.net, irv2., and escapees at least once a week and have for six years) that their was really not much of a problem. I was just as disappointed as you were when I found out my rig was one under the recall (I had only owned it for 90 days) but I bit for the recall and will trust Cummins to do the right thing as I've always seen them do for these type of problems.

My Cummins runs perfectly and I personally wouldn't trade it for any other engine out there wrist pin fix or not.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:52 PM   #5
RayChez1
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

11b is correct about the engine IF it was manufactured with a defective wrist pin, it will blow up within the first 15K miles and Cummins would make it good. But what I did not like what Cummins was doing is installing that warning light on many of the coaches and not making any actual repairs.

I am curious as to what they done to your coach on the recall. Did they pull the pistons out and replaced all the wrist pins or what did they do if they did not even install the red light.

That is why I posted that I believe Cummins really did not know exactly which engines had these faulty wrist pins and that is why they decided to wait and see which engine would blow up and replace them accordingly.

But I do know by experience that Cummins does stand by their engines. I had two ISB that blew up on a Dodge pickup I had and they replaced both at no cost. The only problem was the inconvenience of renting a vehicle while they fixed the truck.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

howermj, have you given Cummins a call to see if the recall is still good. Just explain to them exactly what happened. Not sure how long you have had the coach and how many miles you have put on the coach since you got the letter, but if you have put more then 15K miles on it, it probably never had one of the bad wrist pins. So I would not worry about it.

Good luck on what ever happens. 400 ISL engines are very good engines most of the time.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:46 PM   #7
howermj
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

I actually have an appointment at Cummins Pacific in Orange County next week for the recall (two actually). They will install the sensor, warning light jumper (it just turns on the "stop engine" light in the cluster), and recalibrate the ECM. They will also do a fuel line campaign at the same time. I'll report back what I find.

Online, I've found reports of failed wrist pins at <1000 miles, 13K, 19K, and 26K. All were in warranty and repaired or replaced by Cummins with no issue.

As for my coach, I have 18,056 miles on a 2006. Far, far out of warranty (expired 5/22/11). Since I've found no reports of any issues out of warranty, I can't say what Cummins will do if a wrist pin fails at this late a date. They may just say, "sorry sucker, you are out of warranty." Or, they may do the right thing and fix it anyway since their light was just a "band aid" fix. (FYI -- all Cummins engines, 2007 and on, have the sensor and failure warning light programmed into the ECM by default).

As for me, I'm shopping around for extended warranties. I personally hate them, but I can't afford a $20-$40K hit if I throw a rod.

Any suggestions? I'm headed out for California tomorrow afternoon....
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

If I were you I would spell it out plain and simple to the Extended warranty company just why you are thinking of buying it ( to cover engine recall issues) and make sure they will cover it if Cummins won't. I would bet my life that if your engine goes down due to your wrist pin failed that Cummins would cover the replacement or repair regardless of your warranty time frame.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:17 PM   #9
howermj
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Default Re: Recalls: ISL 400 Engine Wrist Pin

Well...here are the results.

Cummins Pacific did the wrist pin recall on my TM in about 5 hours. Most of that time was figuring out how to get under the bed.

What did they do?

Installed new sensor for pressure in crankcase. Added jumper towering harness. Reprogrammed ECU to show stop engine light if the engine is about to explode. That's it. No perceived loss of power. No other internal work.

The service manager (Jody...she is awesome) pulled the records of previous wrist pin failures and tried to assure me that I was probably past the danger point (less than 10K miles). The wrist pin failures over 10K miles were complications of other engine issues.

Am I satisfied? Not really. I'd prefer a real fix or a guarantee from Cummins that they would cover the rebuild if I have the problem. No such luck. I can't get any assurance that an extended warranty co would cover the problem if it occurs.

Frustrating....but at least I'm up and running again.

Thanks for all the advice.

Vr
Mike
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:23 PM   #10
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I have a cummins that blew up, does anyone know how many hours should be charged to replace it
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:19 PM   #11
dillydone
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My engine just failed, possibly due to wrist pin recall issue. Got "Stop engine light", overpressure sensor activation, pressure leak in #2 cylinder and coolant found in crankcase. 2006 tiffin rv, 400hp cummins engine with only 16,000 miles. Anyone getting cummins to cover the repair even if out of 5 year warranty?
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:34 PM   #12
RayChez1
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That is sad to read of somebody having the ISL 400 failures. I had read quit a bid on this subject and posted on several forums, but some on RV.Net did not want to hear it. They almost black balled me out of there for posting it.

So I just stopped. But I do hope Cummins will make some of it good just like they did on the Dodge trucks with the 5.9 engines manusfactured south of the border in early 2000.

But the ISL is a big engine and they were not willing to recall all the suspected engines, and actually gambled they some would blow up and some would not.

That is why I would never own a Cummins engine, even though when they are put together right, they are a great engine. But why take a chance?

So far I have had good luck with my kitty cat, just hit 70K and still purring along.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:10 AM   #13
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Well it's official...I had an engine failure caused by the wrist pin seizure. Waiting for estimates for long block or complete new engine. Either way, very expensive. Not sure if Cummins will cover the cost to repair or replace the engine, due to the known issue that had a recall done on it (not fixed, just a sensor installed with warning light to shut down engine). It's out of warranty, which shouldn't matter for a known defect that resulted in a recall. Anyone have suggestions on getting Cummins to do the right thing if they say "no" to covering the cost. Never been one to use lawyers to solve problems, hope I don't have to do that now. How would one find a lawyer for this issue? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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