Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Gulf Stream Owners RV Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-14-2008, 11:06 PM   #1
chuckyboy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default SUPERNOVA RIDE !!!

my supernova,6400, has 8000 miles on odometer. had rear shocks installed ,ride still sucks. oscillates bad on bridges, CAN SOMEONE HELP ME? .WILL A STIFFER SPRING HELP ME , OR HURT ? THANKS
chuckyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 03:58 PM   #2
Texas TC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 444
Default

I would think the springs should not be changed. I have not driven a 6400 but have had some concerns about them since they were introduced. I have one of the first 6331 models made in early 2007 and I really think the setup is best for the short frame coaches. First of all, the wheelbase to length ratio on the 34' is .65 which is the best ratio I have seen in the industry. The 6400 ratio is .58 even with the longer wheelbase which gives more rear hang over to cause the coach to handle worse in certain situations. Second, my coach fully loaded with driver, passenger, gear, fuel, and water weighs 21,600# on a certified truck scale which leaves a lot of extra CCC before hitting the GVWR of 25,999# listed in the coach as gross acceptable weight. I have not seen what a 6400 weighs in the same configuration. Third, the balance on the 6331 is 42.5% on the front axle and 57.5% on the rear (again loaded as described above).

I may be totally off base here because I have not seen the statistics I have listed for mine on the 6400. It just seems to me that the extra overhang and weight in the rear of those models. not to mention the extra capacity for water, must take away from the balance attained with the 6331.

Mine is not perfect my wife reminds me. It is perfect from the drivers seat but is a bit bumpy in the rear of the coach. Unlike some who have posted here that they have actually broke mirrors and wood. All I have ever done is bounced some clothes off the hangers in the wardrobe closet. Other than that, all is great with our coach and we have over 24000 miles to date on it.

I hope you find some resolution to your problem. I just don't think springs are the answer. I am affraid that it is in the balance of that size coach. JMHO.



__________________
2008 SuperNova (6331)
2011 Jeep Wrangler (Toad)
Now: 2011 Winnebago Journey Express
2011 Silverado 4x4 Texas Edition Extended Cab (Toad)
Texas TC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 08:57 PM   #3
pchicky
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 72
Default

What year model is your 6400? I have an '09 model and have not had any of the bounce problems that you have mentioned. I wonder if they have done something different on the suspension for the '09 models.

I have traveled with the tanks about 2/3 full (which means more weight on the back, and still no bouncing issues.

As T.C. mentions, the ride in the coach is a little bumpier than up front, but it's 100% better than the Kodiak chassis I had before.
pchicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 09:16 PM   #4
JimBob
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: St. Augustine
Posts: 57
Default

TC has the 34, I've got a 37, and Paul has the 6400 like you have, we're sort of the 3 Musketeers of Super Nova on the forum.

Like my compadres, we are aware of a real bumpy ride in the back if you are lying on the bed, but like TC, have never broken anything in the wardrobes in the back.

There is a forum contributor Jeff, I belive, who has talked about adding a 10-12 thousand dollar air ride suspension in the past, and speaks highly of the addition, not sure if he has the same symptoms or which model he has.

I'm liking TC's synopsis of the situation, while I'm not an engineer, it probably has more to do with the long overhangs and weight distribution more than anything else. I believe each of us had Senecas or similar models before we owned Super Novas, and all of us agree that the Nova's ride is markedly better. I do know that Senecas were voluntarily upgrading the rear springs on their 36 models due to a somewhat spongy ride in the 08 models, anyway.

Keep us posted on your situation, please.

Travel safely, happy holidays

Jim Bob
08Super Nova
Greenwood, SC
http://jimbobmissbetteandbuster.blogspot.com
JimBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 01:19 AM   #5
chuckyboy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default

HEY THREE MUSKETEERS, MY SUPERNOVA IS 2008,SUSPENSION IS IDENTICAL 2009-2008. HAD MY COACH SCALED THIS WEEKEND,FULLY LOADED WITH NO PASSENGERS,(WATER, PROPANE FULL,140 GALLLONS OF FUEL,) WAS 18700 REAR ,7000 FRT. 25700 TOTAL . PUT WIFE ,KIDS CLOTHES ,ETC,FOOD ETC, AND IWOULD HAVE TO BE OUT OF MY MIND TO PULL INTO SCALES !!. AS FAR AS AIR SUSPENSION ,THEY SHOULD OF PUT IT ON AT FACTORY! . SPOKE TO ENGINEER AT INTERNATIONAL, THEY HAD NO IDEA THAT GULFSTREAM EXTENDED FRAME RAILS 8 TO 10 FT. WHEN I TOLD HIM THE LAYOUT OF COACH ,AND EVERYTHING BEHIND REAR AXLE, HE WAS SCRATCHING HIS HEAD ! I TRULY BELEIVE THE ENGINEERS AT GULSTREAM HAD THEIR HEADS UP THEIR ASS WHEN THEY DESIGNED 6400!!!!
chuckyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 10:07 AM   #6
Georunner
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Palmer Lake
Posts: 93
Default

I don't want to question your scales, but your weights are so much different than mine, that if they are correct, I would agree something in the engineering is amiss. I have the 6331 and my weights are #9,500 on the front axle, and #12,000 on the rear, fully loaded with fuel, water, holding tanks, wife, dogs etc. I would wonder where over #4,000 came from. Extending the frame and making the additions to the 40 ft model don't seem to add up to 2 tons. If they do, I can see why your rig would bounce in the rear. Don't have a solution, just observing and commenting.
Georunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 10:37 AM   #7
Texas TC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 444
Default

Geo, your weights are almost identical to mine. Should be, same size coach.

Chucky, your weights confirm my concerns about the 6400. It is almost at maximum weight for the chassis. The loaded weight is at the rear of the coach which unloads the weight on the front axle and skews the balance.
Maybe you do need to change the rear springs. Your weight on the rear axle exceeds 17,500# that is listed as the capacity of the springs on my coach. If yours is the same, you are not getting any spring action at all and they are probably completely compressed. IMHO.



__________________
2008 SuperNova (6331)
2011 Jeep Wrangler (Toad)
Now: 2011 Winnebago Journey Express
2011 Silverado 4x4 Texas Edition Extended Cab (Toad)
Texas TC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 06:53 PM   #8
pchicky
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 72
Default

Wow....this is starting to get interesting.....I had mine weighed, albeit with only the diesel tanks and propane full and nothing in the water or grey/black tanks....it came in at 22,863, which 2837 less than your 6400....even if I filled my tanks full (150 gal fresh and 104 gal grey and black @ 8.34 pounds per gallon, or 2118 lbs), I'd still be 719 lbs lighter. You didn't mention if your grey or black water was filled when you did your weight measurements....I'm assuming you did, or our difference would be much higher.

With the fresh water tank being 150 gal. capacity and being located behind the rear wheels, I can understand the additional weight providing more momentum in a "bouncy" road situation.

Do you pull any kind of trailer that puts tongue weight on the hitch? That would definitely amplify the problem given the distance from the rear wheel to the hitch point on the 6400.

I had my water tank filled 3/4 of the way full on a 600 mile trip and didn't get any bounce, so I'm still puzzled why yours did, unless the additional weight of grey and black water tanks causes it or a trailer does.

Hmmmm, the mysteries of the universe.

I'll say this though....the Kodiak I had was a 33 footer and that dang thing was flat out unstable (I'm talking real white knuckle driving) until I put a Roadmaster sway control kit in the rear and upfront. I don't have that problem at all with my 6400.....
pchicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 07:32 PM   #9
PieEye
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 33
Default

I've only driven mine about 500 miles so far and it was completly empty except for the fuel tanks. I haven't experienced any bounce to speak of and in general I'm very happy with the way it rides. Granted, its not the same ride as a class a on full air ride, but then again, its a truck.....and thats one of the many things I like about it. I'm running down to Florida this weekend for a few days and plan of doing it loaded to the gills including the full fresh water tanks to see how it rides.
PieEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 07:34 PM   #10
Texas TC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 444
Default

On the 6331, I always run the fresh water tank full. Since this model has a very short overhang, it tends to add weight to the rear of the coach and improves the ride. Since this model has so much excess CCC, I keep the basements loaded and water tank loaded to try to compress the springs just as much as I can. Even loaded, I have over 4000# of CCC left. The extra CCC allows me to tow my Jeep Wrangler and not be even at the GVWR and no where close to the GCWR as advertised for the chassis.

It is very interesting that two 6400 coaches are so inconsistent in overall weight when my coach and other 6331's are almost identical on the scale.

Paul, do you have the breakdown for the front and rear axle weights on your 6400?



__________________
2008 SuperNova (6331)
2011 Jeep Wrangler (Toad)
Now: 2011 Winnebago Journey Express
2011 Silverado 4x4 Texas Edition Extended Cab (Toad)
Texas TC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 07:55 PM   #11
chuckyboy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default

we need someone with another 6400 to weigh and compare,,i love my coach, plenty of power,great fuel consumption,looks cool inside and out, but let me tell you something,i am not happy with the ride!!! IHAVE DRIVEN IT WITH WATER ,WITHOUT ,BLACK AND GREY TANKS FULL OR EMPTY,IT JUST DOESN"T MATTER STILL I ASK SOMEONE WILL HEAVIER SPRINGS HELP ME OR HURT ME ????
chuckyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 08:24 PM   #12
pchicky
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 72
Default

Chuckyboy.....I have no experience or have not heard of anybody putting heavier springs under the coach to stop the bounce. However, having goofed around with a bunch of classic cars and dealt with weak springs before, I can tell you that putting a heavier spring under a vehicle will make the compression less during a jolt, but the tradeoff is a harsher ride. Personally, if I didn't like the ride, I'd do exactly what you did first (heavier shocks) and then I'd go for air bags.

Let me ask a few clarifying questions....when you hit a dip in the road (maybe similar to going over a bridge), does your rig bounce once, twice, three times, or all the way across the bridge? Does it make the rig feel "out of control" any, or is it just annoying? What kind of shocks did you put on the rear? Also, just out of curiousity, what does the weight card in the coach (mine is located in the cabinet over the kitchen sink) say as the base weight (mine is 22,700) and the GVWR (mine is 25,999)? I'm just wondering what they said your should weigh....maybe that will help clarify any difference between the weight? Also, I have stuff in the basement, but they are only 1/2 full at the moment (and nothing alarmingly heavy), so maybe there is some difference at the scales between our rigs based upon that.

T.C., the weights are in my coach, which is not stored at my house at the moment....I can't recall the exact weights front to rear, just the total.
pchicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 03:11 PM   #13
Texas TC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 444
Default

Chuckyboy,
You may have a point on your discussion with International concerning stretching the frame rails on the 6400 chassis. Following are the spec's I copied from ITE website:

Chassis International Chassis

Engine International V-8 Diesel
300 Horsepower

Transmission Allison 2500MH

Brakes Hydraulic with 4 channel ABS

GVWR 25,500 lbs

GCWR 33,000 lbs

Wheelbase 140" ? 266"

Length 34'1" ? 37'2"

Fuel Tank 140 gallons

Please note the wheelbase is listed from 140-266" and the lengths are listed at 34'1"-37'2". All coaches are built on the 266" wheelbase except the 6400 which has been stretched to 278". Having said that, the ITE website clearly shows the interior of a 6400 so they must have known that GS was using the chassis in configurations greater than the 266" they had specified.

It looks like ITE may be trying to pass the buck back to GS rather than coming up with a solution to ride problems that the stretching may have caused.

When I first got my coach (being one of the first generation built), it came with 617 gears. When I spoke to International about it running too high RPM's on the highway, they told me that gear package was ordered by GS. GS, through International, subsequently changed the gears to 529 at someones expense, not mine. Now, all GS/International chassis coaches come with the 529 standard. The point is, International was not much help but GS stepped up to the plate and made things right.



__________________
2008 SuperNova (6331)
2011 Jeep Wrangler (Toad)
Now: 2011 Winnebago Journey Express
2011 Silverado 4x4 Texas Edition Extended Cab (Toad)
Texas TC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 05:39 PM   #14
JimBob
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: St. Augustine
Posts: 57
Default

Gang, my 37 foot has a sticker on the drivers door that says frame extensions were done at Mor Ride International Elkhart, Indiana. I think Mor Ride does most of the frame work (read extensions) for the class C's on the road... In any case, the language of the sticker, as in "Mor Ride International" would indicate to me that any frame extensions were done with International's engineering's blessing. Just an opinion.

I think the process is that the frame rails are purchased by Gulfstream after a commitment for so many chassis from International. Some of those are then stretched by Mor Ride, depending on the model, and Gulfstream bolts on the box. This would apply for C's and A's it seems to me.

Guess the industry knows what the limits are by the various chassis frames that are out there. If there is an issue, on goes the tag axle. Guess 40-42 feet is the break point for A's, not sure what it is for C's but I know that Senecas had a world of issues with their 36 foot model. We had a 34 Seneca, and it was tolerable. Texas TC has repeatedly said his 34 foot model Nova owns a steady ride.

Our Nova 37 bounces in back on cement interstates, and you can't sleep in the bed while you are headed down the road, which you could do with the Seneca, but other than that, we have no complaints.

JimBob
08 Super Nova
Greenwood SC
JimBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 07:59 PM   #15
pchicky
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 72
Default

JimBob: My 6400 has the same sticker in the door. While I was checking things out, I pulled up my ISIS report from International to see the raw detail of everything the International put on the chassis. Here's what is says, verbatum, regarding the axles:

Front Axles: "AXLE, FRONT NON-DRIVING, {International I-100SG}I-Beam TYPE, 10,000-lb Capacity"

Front Suspension: "SUSPENSION, FRONT, SPRING Parabolic, Taper Leaf, 10,000-lb Capacity; with shock absorbers"

Rear Axles: "AXLE, REAR, SINGLE {Dana Spicer 17060S} Single Reduction, 17,500-lb capacity, with 190 wheel ends"

Rear Suspension: "SUSPENSION, RR, SPRING, SINGLE Vari-Rate; 18,500-lb capacity, with 4500 lb auxillary rubber spring"

So, taking the weakest components (front and rear axles), then technically you could get 27,500 lbs on the chassis to reach the engineering limit of the components (assuming your didn't put too much weight all in the back and overload the rear axles). Probably for safety reasons and for front/rear balance and to give a safety margin, the front axle limit (by Intenational) is 7937 lbs and 17,500 for the rear, for a total of 25,437. The Gulfstream post shows GVWR at 25,900 and unloaded weight on my model 6400 at 22,708 (includes full diesel fuel). Taking the lower number from the International sticker (25,437) from the unloaded weight give me 2,729 lbs available for water in tanks, people and "stuff", which is more than enough capacity.

So, it doesn't matter if you go by International or Gulfstream numbers, the chassis can handle the load, with room to spare on the 6400 model. Also, this is a truck chassis, so it's gonna ride like a truck chassis (stiff). And with a longer overhang you probably will get more "giddyup" if you hit a good rise in the road and have a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. That's just physics. Yup, there are things everybody can do to soften it up, but it gets down to the cost side. I was use to getting the crap beat out of me by the Kodiak Four Winds so the SuperNova is like heaven to me, and it rides as good as a 29' Winnebago Class C I had as my first motorhome.

With that said, I'm at a loss to explain how our new friend Chuckyboy has a bouncing issue on his rig.....my 6400 hasn't exhibited this in the least bit.

So, that's about the extent of my knowledge on the topic....
pchicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 08:43 PM   #16
Texas TC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 444
Default

My ISIS report has the same suspension definitions. GS sticker has my empty weight at 19700# and GVWR at 25,900. On the door panel, International lists GVWR at 25,999#.



__________________
2008 SuperNova (6331)
2011 Jeep Wrangler (Toad)
Now: 2011 Winnebago Journey Express
2011 Silverado 4x4 Texas Edition Extended Cab (Toad)
Texas TC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2008, 12:31 PM   #17
chuckyboy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default

Let me ask you musketeers a question ,what state are you guys from ?? I am from the north east ,ny , and the roads and highways aren't that great. If i lived in arizona or new mexico where the climate is usually warm , and the roads don't get beat up by snowplows ,potholes ,etc. my 6400 would ride like a class A . come on over to and take a ride on the new jersey turnpike and tell me how your 6400 rides !!! . and about my "giddy up " ,it has been so bad that i had to pull over to control it ! please all you 6400 owners, stop reading the numbers off your doorjamb ,or going by the gulfstream numbers, put your coaches on a scale fully loaded ,water, fuel ,and stuff, you will be surprised !
chuckyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2008, 01:17 PM   #18
pchicky
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 72
Default

I'm in SC as is Jim Bob.....I use to live in Delaware, so I know what you're talking about with the roads being bad up there. And the New Jersey Turnpike isn't fun in a car, much less a motorhome. So, I can understand what you're saying about the ride of your SuperNova......wouldn't doubt it for a minute.

We're just trying to be helpful (numbers and such), not trying to deny that your problem is real.

Next time I'm back up at the truckstop for a fillup, I'll weigh in again just to see what the numbers read this go round.
pchicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2008, 06:29 PM   #19
JimBob
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: St. Augustine
Posts: 57
Default

Jim Bob as was mentioned, resides in South Carolina. Before that, I lived in New Jersey, and drove into New York City to work. I had a 30 year career of constant traveling, which has included motor homes since 1984, and I've owned 9 of them, up to our current Super Nova.

My bonafides for commenting on the current thread include 20,000 miles of ownership of a Jayco Seneca, which was driven coast to coast, up to Yellowstone, and back, as well as two loops up to Maine from SC, and to our summer placement at Meridith, NH; including the dreaded I-10 through Louisiana and plenty of red and blue roads, since I'm not really one to drive the Interstates just for fun.

I also have as of this minute 11,000 miles in our 08 Super Nova, again, driven from SC to Texas, up to Oklahoma, another circle up to Indiana and multiple smaller trips to Florida and again, a trip this summer up to Maine and New Hampshire.

That being said, and let me preface my post with some full disclosure, as of this minute, I just drove 540 miles in a Toyota Camry with a 12 and 8 year old fighting most of way, and a wife who is totally frazzled, just lost her mother, (were on our way to New Jersey, where your crappy roads are located). May not be in the very chirpiest of moods.

As Musketeer Paul said, there is no denial that you seem to be mightily unhappy with the ride on your coach. The assumption here would be that you test drove your coach before purchase. Hope you did. Assume that you did your due dilligence, and asked around, as we all did, Guessing that you might have checked in to a forum or two, to see what previous owners have to say, good or bad, and so forth.

Clearly, the coach is not living up to your expectations. Clearly, the coach as constructed and rides, seems to live up to ours as owners.

As it states in the header for the forum it is for "Gulf Stream owners "coming together to help each other."
As I read the thread, we attempted to do just that- offer testimony to our experience. It's there for you to use, or not.

If you are so disinclined to be so unhappy with your purchase, if you're not too upside down in your ownership picture, perhaps you might trade the 6400 in on another C+ that you might find that doesn't offer so harsh a ride, after, of course you test drive it for a few hundred miles, fully loaded, weighed, and certified by the manufacturer that the ride you seek will be delivered as such.

As for me, I'm going to maintain my status as a Super Nova Cheerleader,
and continue to proudly show off the coach to the many fans we get at most every campground we go to.

Happy holidays. Parsippany New Jersey tomorrow.

JimBob
08 Super Nova
http://jimbobmissbetteandbuster.blogspot.com
JimBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2008, 06:32 PM   #20
Texas TC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 444
Default

I live in Texas. Roads are generally pretty good. I go to Florida about four times a year and the roads in Louisiana and Mississippi are the pits. Those are the only roads that I drive that would be similar to yours. It is not fun to drive on them but they do not cause me any real problems. I can still run at 70+ mph. I wish I could give you a definitive answer to your problem but the 34' is so much lighter and shorter and has very little overhang that it is almost apples to oranges in comparison.



__________________
2008 SuperNova (6331)
2011 Jeep Wrangler (Toad)
Now: 2011 Winnebago Journey Express
2011 Silverado 4x4 Texas Edition Extended Cab (Toad)
Texas TC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Been A Great Ride tarheel Class A 4 10-19-2014 07:36 AM
ride height frank Class A 0 04-16-2011 10:31 PM
slide out over ride Wayne Class A 4 02-10-2011 01:39 PM
Air Ride for Kodiak bowtiebill Class C 0 12-13-2010 03:12 PM
Supernova 6400 Ride astern Class C 3 02-17-2010 08:22 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×