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Old 12-16-2008, 08:55 PM   #11
chuckyboy
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we need someone with another 6400 to weigh and compare,,i love my coach, plenty of power,great fuel consumption,looks cool inside and out, but let me tell you something,i am not happy with the ride!!! IHAVE DRIVEN IT WITH WATER ,WITHOUT ,BLACK AND GREY TANKS FULL OR EMPTY,IT JUST DOESN"T MATTER STILL I ASK SOMEONE WILL HEAVIER SPRINGS HELP ME OR HURT ME ????
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:24 PM   #12
pchicky
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Chuckyboy.....I have no experience or have not heard of anybody putting heavier springs under the coach to stop the bounce. However, having goofed around with a bunch of classic cars and dealt with weak springs before, I can tell you that putting a heavier spring under a vehicle will make the compression less during a jolt, but the tradeoff is a harsher ride. Personally, if I didn't like the ride, I'd do exactly what you did first (heavier shocks) and then I'd go for air bags.

Let me ask a few clarifying questions....when you hit a dip in the road (maybe similar to going over a bridge), does your rig bounce once, twice, three times, or all the way across the bridge? Does it make the rig feel "out of control" any, or is it just annoying? What kind of shocks did you put on the rear? Also, just out of curiousity, what does the weight card in the coach (mine is located in the cabinet over the kitchen sink) say as the base weight (mine is 22,700) and the GVWR (mine is 25,999)? I'm just wondering what they said your should weigh....maybe that will help clarify any difference between the weight? Also, I have stuff in the basement, but they are only 1/2 full at the moment (and nothing alarmingly heavy), so maybe there is some difference at the scales between our rigs based upon that.

T.C., the weights are in my coach, which is not stored at my house at the moment....I can't recall the exact weights front to rear, just the total.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:11 PM   #13
Texas TC
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Chuckyboy,
You may have a point on your discussion with International concerning stretching the frame rails on the 6400 chassis. Following are the spec's I copied from ITE website:

Chassis International Chassis

Engine International V-8 Diesel
300 Horsepower

Transmission Allison 2500MH

Brakes Hydraulic with 4 channel ABS

GVWR 25,500 lbs

GCWR 33,000 lbs

Wheelbase 140" ? 266"

Length 34'1" ? 37'2"

Fuel Tank 140 gallons

Please note the wheelbase is listed from 140-266" and the lengths are listed at 34'1"-37'2". All coaches are built on the 266" wheelbase except the 6400 which has been stretched to 278". Having said that, the ITE website clearly shows the interior of a 6400 so they must have known that GS was using the chassis in configurations greater than the 266" they had specified.

It looks like ITE may be trying to pass the buck back to GS rather than coming up with a solution to ride problems that the stretching may have caused.

When I first got my coach (being one of the first generation built), it came with 617 gears. When I spoke to International about it running too high RPM's on the highway, they told me that gear package was ordered by GS. GS, through International, subsequently changed the gears to 529 at someones expense, not mine. Now, all GS/International chassis coaches come with the 529 standard. The point is, International was not much help but GS stepped up to the plate and made things right.



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Old 12-18-2008, 06:39 PM   #14
JimBob
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Gang, my 37 foot has a sticker on the drivers door that says frame extensions were done at Mor Ride International Elkhart, Indiana. I think Mor Ride does most of the frame work (read extensions) for the class C's on the road... In any case, the language of the sticker, as in "Mor Ride International" would indicate to me that any frame extensions were done with International's engineering's blessing. Just an opinion.

I think the process is that the frame rails are purchased by Gulfstream after a commitment for so many chassis from International. Some of those are then stretched by Mor Ride, depending on the model, and Gulfstream bolts on the box. This would apply for C's and A's it seems to me.

Guess the industry knows what the limits are by the various chassis frames that are out there. If there is an issue, on goes the tag axle. Guess 40-42 feet is the break point for A's, not sure what it is for C's but I know that Senecas had a world of issues with their 36 foot model. We had a 34 Seneca, and it was tolerable. Texas TC has repeatedly said his 34 foot model Nova owns a steady ride.

Our Nova 37 bounces in back on cement interstates, and you can't sleep in the bed while you are headed down the road, which you could do with the Seneca, but other than that, we have no complaints.

JimBob
08 Super Nova
Greenwood SC
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:59 PM   #15
pchicky
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JimBob: My 6400 has the same sticker in the door. While I was checking things out, I pulled up my ISIS report from International to see the raw detail of everything the International put on the chassis. Here's what is says, verbatum, regarding the axles:

Front Axles: "AXLE, FRONT NON-DRIVING, {International I-100SG}I-Beam TYPE, 10,000-lb Capacity"

Front Suspension: "SUSPENSION, FRONT, SPRING Parabolic, Taper Leaf, 10,000-lb Capacity; with shock absorbers"

Rear Axles: "AXLE, REAR, SINGLE {Dana Spicer 17060S} Single Reduction, 17,500-lb capacity, with 190 wheel ends"

Rear Suspension: "SUSPENSION, RR, SPRING, SINGLE Vari-Rate; 18,500-lb capacity, with 4500 lb auxillary rubber spring"

So, taking the weakest components (front and rear axles), then technically you could get 27,500 lbs on the chassis to reach the engineering limit of the components (assuming your didn't put too much weight all in the back and overload the rear axles). Probably for safety reasons and for front/rear balance and to give a safety margin, the front axle limit (by Intenational) is 7937 lbs and 17,500 for the rear, for a total of 25,437. The Gulfstream post shows GVWR at 25,900 and unloaded weight on my model 6400 at 22,708 (includes full diesel fuel). Taking the lower number from the International sticker (25,437) from the unloaded weight give me 2,729 lbs available for water in tanks, people and "stuff", which is more than enough capacity.

So, it doesn't matter if you go by International or Gulfstream numbers, the chassis can handle the load, with room to spare on the 6400 model. Also, this is a truck chassis, so it's gonna ride like a truck chassis (stiff). And with a longer overhang you probably will get more "giddyup" if you hit a good rise in the road and have a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. That's just physics. Yup, there are things everybody can do to soften it up, but it gets down to the cost side. I was use to getting the crap beat out of me by the Kodiak Four Winds so the SuperNova is like heaven to me, and it rides as good as a 29' Winnebago Class C I had as my first motorhome.

With that said, I'm at a loss to explain how our new friend Chuckyboy has a bouncing issue on his rig.....my 6400 hasn't exhibited this in the least bit.

So, that's about the extent of my knowledge on the topic....
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:43 PM   #16
Texas TC
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My ISIS report has the same suspension definitions. GS sticker has my empty weight at 19700# and GVWR at 25,900. On the door panel, International lists GVWR at 25,999#.



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Old 12-20-2008, 01:31 PM   #17
chuckyboy
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Let me ask you musketeers a question ,what state are you guys from ?? I am from the north east ,ny , and the roads and highways aren't that great. If i lived in arizona or new mexico where the climate is usually warm , and the roads don't get beat up by snowplows ,potholes ,etc. my 6400 would ride like a class A . come on over to and take a ride on the new jersey turnpike and tell me how your 6400 rides !!! . and about my "giddy up " ,it has been so bad that i had to pull over to control it ! please all you 6400 owners, stop reading the numbers off your doorjamb ,or going by the gulfstream numbers, put your coaches on a scale fully loaded ,water, fuel ,and stuff, you will be surprised !
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:17 PM   #18
pchicky
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I'm in SC as is Jim Bob.....I use to live in Delaware, so I know what you're talking about with the roads being bad up there. And the New Jersey Turnpike isn't fun in a car, much less a motorhome. So, I can understand what you're saying about the ride of your SuperNova......wouldn't doubt it for a minute.

We're just trying to be helpful (numbers and such), not trying to deny that your problem is real.

Next time I'm back up at the truckstop for a fillup, I'll weigh in again just to see what the numbers read this go round.
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:29 PM   #19
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Jim Bob as was mentioned, resides in South Carolina. Before that, I lived in New Jersey, and drove into New York City to work. I had a 30 year career of constant traveling, which has included motor homes since 1984, and I've owned 9 of them, up to our current Super Nova.

My bonafides for commenting on the current thread include 20,000 miles of ownership of a Jayco Seneca, which was driven coast to coast, up to Yellowstone, and back, as well as two loops up to Maine from SC, and to our summer placement at Meridith, NH; including the dreaded I-10 through Louisiana and plenty of red and blue roads, since I'm not really one to drive the Interstates just for fun.

I also have as of this minute 11,000 miles in our 08 Super Nova, again, driven from SC to Texas, up to Oklahoma, another circle up to Indiana and multiple smaller trips to Florida and again, a trip this summer up to Maine and New Hampshire.

That being said, and let me preface my post with some full disclosure, as of this minute, I just drove 540 miles in a Toyota Camry with a 12 and 8 year old fighting most of way, and a wife who is totally frazzled, just lost her mother, (were on our way to New Jersey, where your crappy roads are located). May not be in the very chirpiest of moods.

As Musketeer Paul said, there is no denial that you seem to be mightily unhappy with the ride on your coach. The assumption here would be that you test drove your coach before purchase. Hope you did. Assume that you did your due dilligence, and asked around, as we all did, Guessing that you might have checked in to a forum or two, to see what previous owners have to say, good or bad, and so forth.

Clearly, the coach is not living up to your expectations. Clearly, the coach as constructed and rides, seems to live up to ours as owners.

As it states in the header for the forum it is for "Gulf Stream owners "coming together to help each other."
As I read the thread, we attempted to do just that- offer testimony to our experience. It's there for you to use, or not.

If you are so disinclined to be so unhappy with your purchase, if you're not too upside down in your ownership picture, perhaps you might trade the 6400 in on another C+ that you might find that doesn't offer so harsh a ride, after, of course you test drive it for a few hundred miles, fully loaded, weighed, and certified by the manufacturer that the ride you seek will be delivered as such.

As for me, I'm going to maintain my status as a Super Nova Cheerleader,
and continue to proudly show off the coach to the many fans we get at most every campground we go to.

Happy holidays. Parsippany New Jersey tomorrow.

JimBob
08 Super Nova
http://jimbobmissbetteandbuster.blogspot.com
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:32 PM   #20
Texas TC
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I live in Texas. Roads are generally pretty good. I go to Florida about four times a year and the roads in Louisiana and Mississippi are the pits. Those are the only roads that I drive that would be similar to yours. It is not fun to drive on them but they do not cause me any real problems. I can still run at 70+ mph. I wish I could give you a definitive answer to your problem but the 34' is so much lighter and shorter and has very little overhang that it is almost apples to oranges in comparison.



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