Newb that needs serious help

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Hello! This is my first post.

I have a '94 Gulfstream Tourmaster 8391. Really nice coach. I have some issues with it, some were known when I bought it and some are operator error.

I'll keep this thread to one major issue and post the others at a later date.

My coach will not start. I've never had this issue, but then again the last time it started was probably in May. When I put the key in and turn, no noise, nothing. Not even an attempt to turn over. Nothing else works either. So, I' going to conclude that I have a drain on my chasis batteries.

I looked for the batteries and cannot find them. I opened the engine compartment in the back and I don't see batteries. I know where the house batteries are, they are in the one of the basement compartments.

Can someone help me?

Thank you in advance!

[Chuck v]

Bill,


I am not familiar with your year coach but on my 2007 Tour Master the chassis and the house batteries are both in the basement compartment just aft of the curb-side rear wheels. The house batteries are two each deep cycle style 12 volt units in parallel, plus the two parallel chassis (diesel start) batteries which are sealed automotive/truck style 12 volt batteries appropriate for that service.


Since my coach also has an inverter to run the residential style refrigerator, it also has 4 each 6 volt golf cart style batteries wired in series/parallel mounted in the front of the coach behind an access panel below the front windshield near the diesel generator unit.


Look closely and you may find that there are two groups of batteries in that basement compartment. I have never seen a full-sized diesel pusher coach with batteries in the rear engine compartment. Most of these coaches have a dash switch that temporarily connect the house and chassis batteries together to crank the engine when the chassis batteries are insufficiently charged. Another thing to note is that most of these coaches do not charge the chassis batteries from the shore power connection. I modified my own coach to have a separate quality float charger tend to the chassis batteries when parked on shore power because I lived aboard and only moved the coach about 4 times a year for a couple or three days each trip...


Chuck

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Chuck,

Thank you!

So I was correct all along. I started to charge in that compartment you spoke of. When nothing happened I assumed I had the wrong batteries. I don't think my Highlander will charge the starting batteries, just not enough juice.

I will begin live aboard in a few weeks. Maybe I should get a tender as well. In the meantime, I think I will figure out which ones are the starting batts and take them out and have Autozone charge them for me.

You spoke of a switch on the dash. Do you know what it looks like? I attempted to label all the switches when I first got the coach but maybe I'm wrong about a few.

Thanks again for the response.

Bill

[[email protected]]

"You spoke of a switch on the dash. Do you know what it looks like? "
Sounds as if you're having fun, Bill. It will all come together with patience.
I have a 2000 Tourmaster with a parallel switch to which you alluded. It's a rocker style switch. While you hold it in, it connects your start battery to your house batteries for supplemental power. On my coach, it's located on a panel of rocker switches just above the ignition key and labelled 'AUX START'
[/B]

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

"You spoke of a switch on the dash. Do you know what it looks like? "
Sounds as if you're having fun, Bill. It will all come together with patience.
I have a 2000 Tourmaster with a parallel switch to which you alluded. It's a rocker style switch. While you hold it in, it connects your start battery to your house batteries for supplemental power. On my coach, it's located on a panel of rocker switches just above the ignition key and labelled 'AUX START'
[/B]

Thanks for the reply! Here is a photo of my switches. I do not have one that looks like a battery. So I have them labeled correctly? And what are the switches by the stairs, esp that red one. No matter what position it’s in it won’t illuminate.

[[email protected]]

My switches are quite different from yours, Bill. I'd be surprised if you don't have an 'AUX START' parallel switch somewhere, but it doesn't appear to me to be on the panel you photographed. On the lower panel you submitted, I really don't know what that red switch is for. I have a separate mini panel that's labelled 'battery disconnect' in roughly the same position as the red switch on your panel.

[THenne1713]

If the ES Switch is a Toggle (vs Momentary spring loaded?), you can sometimes toggle ON to charge chassis for hours/ day while on shoreline.

[Chuck v]

Bill,


You won't be able to jump start your diesel coach with the single 12 volt battery in your highlander most likely, but you can use a 30 amp automotive charger overnight to bring up those starting batteries if they are not completely flat from old age and being discharged for a long period. Always replace both batteries of a parallel pair at the same time because batteries connected in this way need to be the same age, capacity and vendor.


The start assist switch was a momentary rocker and I recall it was in the lower row. Sorry I am not able to come up with a more detailed description or a picture but maybe another member here will chime in.


Chuck

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Update: I bought a Schumacher Battery Charger/Engine Starter. It still won't start, but it is trying now, where as before not even an attempt. So, I am going to conclude that the batts were completely discharged and need to charge for a while. I think this is normal that the engine starter won' start it, as I would really need 2 of them to get the right cranking amps and voltage.

Also going to conclude that I don't have 4 golf cart style batts. One, I cannot find them. I pulled the gen out and looked as far as I could go under there and nothing. Two, and this is where it gets tricky. There are 4 batts in the aft starboard basement. They are on a slideout tray so easy to access, but nothing is labeled. Logically, one would think that you could tell which batt was a deep cyle and which batt is a starting batt by definition. However, these batts are new, but it appears they didn't take care to ensure they connected them for the right purpose. For example, I have 3 starting lead acid batts and one deep cycle AGM. The 3 starting are Carquest 31S30 Commercial and Farm batts. The AGM Deep Cycle is a Carquest NG31 Platinum battery, which is an AGM deepcycle. Since I cannot tell how they are connected, I have to conclude that they are wired the way I said because when I connected the charger/engine starter to 2 of the 31S30 batts, the generator almost started, again, couldn't get it to do anything yesterday. And, other things started happening like I was able to turn on lights inside the coach. Then, when I switched over the charger/starter to the other 2 batts, the coach almost cranked over and the gen wouldn't do anything again. So, that's a bit of a mess. Not going to swap anything out now, as this setup has worked for me in Apr and May and worked fine for the previous owner for almost a year.

So, I am charging the batts now on the 30A setting and I'll see where that gets me and report back.

Thanks for the help!

[[email protected]]

"and this is where it gets tricky. There are 4 batts in the aft starboard basement. They are on a slideout tray so easy to access, but nothing is labeled."
Bill, you could pull the negative (ground wire) off one set of batteries and see if the house electrical system is dead. If so, you know you've removed the ground from the house batteries, etc.
"Logically, one would think that you could tell which batt was a deep cyle and which batt is a starting batt by definition."
House batteries are often 6 volt - not always, but if you see 6 volt batteries, they're likely not starting batteries.
" For example, I have 3 starting lead acid batts and one deep cycle AGM. The 3 starting are Carquest 31S30 Commercial and Farm batts. The AGM Deep Cycle is a Carquest NG31 Platinum battery, which is an AGM deepcycle."
Google 'connecting different type batteries in series or parallel.' i.e. wet cel coupled with AGM. You'll find a ton of reasons why this is a bad idea.
"when I connected the charger/engine starter to 2 of the 31S30 batts, the generator almost started"
On mine, the genset starter is connected to the house batteries.
Hope all the above helps a little, Bill. Good luck!!

[[email protected]]

"and this is where it gets tricky. There are 4 batts in the aft starboard basement. They are on a slideout tray so easy to access, but nothing is labeled."
Bill, you could pull the negative (ground wire) off one set of batteries and see if the house electrical system is dead. If so, you know you've removed the ground from the house batteries, etc.
"Logically, one would think that you could tell which batt was a deep cyle and which batt is a starting batt by definition."
House batteries are often 6 volt - not always, but if you see 6 volt batteries, they're likely not starting batteries.
" For example, I have 3 starting lead acid batts and one deep cycle AGM. The 3 starting are Carquest 31S30 Commercial and Farm batts. The AGM Deep Cycle is a Carquest NG31 Platinum battery, which is an AGM deepcycle."
Google 'connecting different type batteries in series or parallel.' You'll find a ton of reasons why this is a bad idea.
"when I connected the charger/engine starter to 2 of the 31S30 batts, the generator almost started"
On mine, the genset starter is connected to the house batteries.
Hope all the above helps a little, Bill. Good luck!!

[Restorium]

From reading the whole story it seems you had a draw on the engine batteries for a week that killed them. You need to find that.
And also a draw on the coach batteries that killed them. Normal if you had anything 12v on and your convertor isn't working or the coach is unplugged.
If it has been plugged in your convertor isn't charging your coach batteries properly or they wouldn't be dead.
With all the batteries being new it seems someone skipped fixing the real problems and bandaided it with new batteries.

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Originally Posted by Restorium

From reading the whole story it seems you had a draw on the engine batteries for a week that killed them. You need to find that.
And also a draw on the coach batteries that killed them. Normal if you had anything 12v on and your convertor isn't working or the coach is unplugged.
If it has been plugged in your convertor isn't charging your coach batteries properly or they wouldn't be dead.
With all the batteries being new it seems someone skipped fixing the real problems and bandaided it with new batteries.

Yeah, the coach isn't plugged in. I tried that and the GFCI started smoking and then my breaker tripped because the coach was drawing too much power. But, that was when I first got the RV in April. Since then, I have run it. I quit in May because I got busy and frankly, the novelty wore off. I bought this to live full time and I'm trying to do work on my house so I can sell it. Then I will move into the RV and get electric/water hookups.

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Since this question is related to the original issue I will say this here. Reading the manual for my coach, I discovered that it says if you jump the coach, you will need to replace a 20A fuse because jumping the coach causes the alt to blow the fuse. I am assuming this fuse is located under the driver seat in the basement? Does anyone know what that would look like? I do have a DMM but I am short on time and trying to find the fuse I can replace it. This is critical because I will start the coach up from time to time to keep the chasis batts charged.

Thanks in advance!

[Restorium]

Originally Posted by Capt_Bill_USMC

Since this question is related to the original issue I will say this here. Reading the manual for my coach, I discovered that it says if you jump the coach, you will need to replace a 20A fuse because jumping the coach causes the alt to blow the fuse. I am assuming this fuse is located under the driver seat in the basement? Does anyone know what that would look like? I do have a DMM but I am short on time and trying to find the fuse I can replace it. This is critical because I will start the coach up from time to time to keep the chasis batts charged.

Thanks in advance!

Does the gauge show it's not charging?

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Originally Posted by Restorium

Does the gauge show it's not charging?

The gauge on the dash shows it is charging. However, the fuse that the manual says will need to be replaced is for the alt. So, the batt will charge just fine with the charger, but it will not hold the charge until the fuse is replaced.

[Restorium]

Originally Posted by Capt_Bill_USMC

The gauge on the dash shows it is charging. However, the fuse that the manual says will need to be replaced is for the alt. So, the batt will charge just fine with the charger, but it will not hold the charge until the fuse is replaced.

Well sir, that just is not true. If the fuse was blown it would not charge. You didn't blow the fuse. There is some other reason your batteries do not hold a charge.

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Update 2: Got the RV started and the gen as well. The batts were dead, but not any more. Thanks to all who replied.

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Originally Posted by Restorium

Well sir, that just is not true. If the fuse was blown it would not charge. You didn't blow the fuse. There is some other reason your batteries do not hold a charge.

I completely agree that there is another reason why the batts won't hold a charge for long. There is a load on there that I have not detected you.

What the manual is saying is that once you jump the vehicle, you will need to replace the 20A fuse because it will blow and no matter how far you drive the RV, it will not charge the batts until you replace it. I will take a pic of it to show you.

I was asking about the fuse because now I need to locate it, if I did in fact blow it, for the future.

[Capt_Bill_USMC]

Originally Posted by Restorium

Well sir, that just is not true. If the fuse was blown it would not charge. You didn't blow the fuse. There is some other reason your batteries do not hold a charge.

Here is a photo from the manual. If I’m misinterpreting this I’m open to that but otherwise I would do well to check that fuse. Just got to find it.