Lost power to ignition relay

[owenaa]

Hi

I have a 1995 Scenic Cruiser and I have lost the 12v signal at J1 - pin 5 in the B.C.C. (battery control center) which activtes the Ignition relay which is located adjacent to the B.C.C. .. I have tracked it as circuit 134 from the key switch down through where it goes into the chassis connector then out to the V.I.M.(vehicle interface module?) ... I do not know what or where the V.I.M. is and why there is not a 12v signal returning to plug J1 - pin 5 in the B.C.C.... The ignition relay supplies 12v power to the defroster, mirrors, power seat and spot light and is activated by the ignition switch..
Any help would be appreciated... still trying to get in touch with customer service... sent email to service dept, maybe they will forward or reply...
Thanks

[RJ82much]

Hi Al,

I'm sorry that I won't be able to help you with any specifics. My information "runs off the page" with the source of the wires to the ignition relays. The wires (often pink) on the GS side of the coach to automotive interface connectors do not have the automotive numbering designations either.

I'm guessing if you assume there is nothing wrong with the VIM, then you should look for blown fuses in the automotive fuse block. There seems to be multiple ignition circuits (IGN, IGN1, IGN2, etc) at the coach wiring center. But you are indicating no 12VDC out of a single wire from the ignition key switch itself? Everything else works except defroster, mirrors, power seat and spot light?

Since I don't have any information at all, I merely suggest to look for blown fuses at a fuse block somewhere in the engine compartment or under your dashboard.

[owenaa]

Bob

Thanks for the reply.. I have a good schematic for the Spartan chassis and it got me to the V.I.M., which is a GS ?secret? I guess.. All fuses and breakers are good and I can actually measure the voltage up to where circuit 134 enters the chassis connector to the V.I.M?. I haven?t found the return path to the B.C.C. (battery control center)? there it provides the 12v signal through J1-pin5 to the ignition relay?

I?m thinking about pulling the BCC circuit board and tracing the lan on the back of the board to see if I can find the input to it from the VIM?

I also called Intellitec this morning, they make the BCC, to see if they could provide the circuit board info? It?s another waiting game to see if they return the call!!

You mentioned that your info runs off the page?.. My BCC info and relay placement diagram is printed on the back of the BCC cover plate?. It?s a black plastic cover with the white diagram on the back?

An interesting side note, in my frustration in not being able to contact CS, I sent an email to the GS service dept to see if they could/would help or forward my problem to someone who could? This morning I received an email from the V.P. for Operations, Scott Pullin, he apologized for the problems with CS and said he would forward my problem directly to the electrical dept for action? We?ll See !!

I did write a reply and tactfully told him that if his CS was that covered up? they need help?

Thanks again? it?s a good feeling to know someone cares and will help if they can!!

[RJ82much]

Al, with Scott involved, you can't ask for any better coverage. If you don't recieve the response from electrical, then is the time to re-contact Scott to report that fact. Can you imagine any engineering department, or production person ignoring him? When it happens, my guess it's 1 time only.

I wish I could do more to help, but I am still puzzled where the wires go. Give Scott the chance to have it worked out

[owenaa]

Hi Bob

Well, all is fixed now... Scott did have the Chief Electrical Engineer call me personally.. Very nice conversation, but he didn't have much knowledge of the older coaches... He said '95 was way before his time and that they didn't have a lot of paperwork on them... I also received a call from Lori at customer service? she said they have a few customer service folks out sick and she was sent over to help out with the call backs?

I had already contacted Intellitec and Victor returned my call and fixed me right up? Basically he was able to tell me which plug and pin that the return voltage came back to the BCC? The 12v signal was there, so it was a matter of tracing the lan to the plug that supplies the 12v output to the relay?. It worked.. I had to remove the cover off the fog light relay to inspect the lan.. when I did, I found an open on the trace to the plug? I repaired it and the circuit is now operational?.

HOWEVER?. In talking to Victor and comparing the circuit board to the diagram we discovered that the schematic is mislabeled along with the diagram.. They actually have the relay ?Hot & ?Gnd? pins reversed?He said that there is a difference between the diesel circuit and the gas circuit and the diagram is the same as the gas, but the gas plug has 8 pins instead of 6? it?s hard to imagine, it?s 12 years old and no one else has noticed that?

In this circuit it really didn?t matter because it is used as a circuit gnd and not a chassis ground? it returns to the circuit board to the isolation relay circuit? I guess they are using the relay coil as a choke or voltage drop back to the other circuit?

My problem came from someone adding a chassis ground to the ignition relay coil? for what ever reason they thought it was necessary.. The individual I bought it from had just had the Banks Power system added to the coach and I have noticed several additional grounds? in this case it was a bad move? With the reversed wires to the relay, the black was positive and the orange was circuit ground? of course they put the additional chassis ground to the black wire which put the 12v to ground.. first thing to give up was the lan on the circuit board..

I repaired the lan and removed the additional ground and everything is back to normal?
Thanks for the help and replies?.