Air won't cool Model 5291

[Glen]

I have a Gulfstream Yellowstone 5291 with 3 slides, I have had several problems with factory quality, but my problem is the air won't cool the unit if all slides are out and it's over 82 out the best I can get at counter height is 79 inside. With slides in it does better. Has anyone had this problem and do you know of a fix or is your same model working.
Glen

[RCSMITH]

If the ac unit runs continuously, the coils may frost over. Set the thermostat high enough that the compressor cycles on and off and gradually drop the temp. If you set thermo. low the compressor
runs non stop & frost can build up blocking airflow. If the unit cycles, frost has a chance to melt off.

RC

[Glen]

Got motor home back today from RV service shop and Gulfstreams dealer claims air conditioner is doing all it can. It even cools unit a little if you leave the dining room slide in and close all curtains and shades. I guess there answer must be to keep this slide closed and caulk around it or only camp on cool days or stay out of Florida.
Glen

[mfa]

Does your MH have the 15,000 BTU AC or the 13,500 BTU AC? In my experience, the 13,500 BTU unit is going to struggle to cool a MH your size.

One thing that can help -- the thick insulated vent cushions you can find at Camping World. A lot of heat & solar loading comes in through the vent areas. We use these cushions in two of our vents in the summer.

[Texas TC]

We have a 13500 btu unit in the front of our 34' SuperNova and a 11000 btu unit in the rear. We go to Florida in the summer a lot to visit the kids and grand kids. I had limo tint added to the bedroom windows and wife made covers to go over the windows in the living area. These additions have worked well to keep our coach frosty cold all summer in Florida and in Texas.

[RJ82much]

Glen,

There is another cause for lack of cooling that keeps popping it's ugly head. There have been many cases where the factory failed to remove tape (or cut coverings? ) from the air conditionor's chamber into the ceiling ductwork. It sounds almost impossible to believe, but it has happened more than a few times. This assumes your unit has ceiling ducting like the class A's. If so, the easy fix is to cut the openings into the duct. Somehow, the factory seems to forget this minor detail (sarcasm showing)

Anyway, do you feel cold air at all? Do you have a ceiling vent system? Is there a lot of air movement if you open the AC vent directly into the room?

Also, if the interior of our coach is really warm, I run the ceiling exhaust fan for a while to remove the hottest air. From there, the AC unit can comfortably take over.

Something is drastically wrong if the best your air can do is 3 degrees of cooling.

Let us know what you find after an inspection.

[Glen]

Still hot after days of phone calls and e-mails. Duo Therm claims it's not their fault, it is Gulfstream for wrong duct size or undersize unit. Gulfstream says unit is fine and I am the only one with this problem. Dealers say all their units like mine cool great, even the one with the large window in the front. Either someone is not being truthful or with this and the other 50 or 60 problems I've had maybe it's time for us all to admit, I got a lemon. This unit was bought new in March and spent half its life or more sense with them or me working on it! We have gulfstream warranty, Duo-Therm warrenty, and we bought the 7 year warranty on top of that. All the warranty plans will be pretty safe since unit is to hot to use in hot weather and none are willing to fix at this point?
Glen

[RJ82much]

Glen,

I understand that you are very frustrated, and rightly so. I'm very disappointed with your dealer. That said, there are some things you need to do and need to explain to us.

Does your AC unit blow cool air? If you open the discharge vent directly into the room, does cool air blow down into the room? Do you have any kind of a thermometer that you can hold in the airstream right below the AC to determine the temperature? Is any air blowing?

If there is air blowing, and it is cool, then you are going to have to remove the grill & foam filter. With a flashlight, look into the discharge chamber & see if you can find an opening in the box on both sides where the airflow can flow into the roof duct system. If there are no openings, then there is a problem.

So, if there is no air blowing, or if the air is not cool, or if there are no openings to the roof ducts, then you & your dealer need to talk.

I may not live in Florida, but I've camped in 90 degree weather and can keep my unit comfortable with the 13500 BTU unit - slides out.

Please answer the above questions. Thanks.

[Glen]

Bob,
Yes, they have checked the air duct passages and I went through them again today. Originaly the said there was something blocked and they fixed that. I and they have run around with ac thermomenters and had them every where. I do have a 20 degree drop or more from intake to exhaust. today I am camping in a no hookup site in Auburn, IN. I had not ran the air because no more than it does it is a waste of gas in the generator. It got up to 85 hear today and I camme back to camper after lunch. I yhought I would check everything again and the camper wasn't to warm, so I started genorator and allready had a roof vent running. After about 1 hr I shut the roof vent and removed intire panel under roof unit. All openings are as open as they made the cutout to duct. the runs do go past vents to wall, but seam blocked at ends to make air come out of vents. We couldn't tellmuch differance with or without center large vent open or closed. After checking every thing we decided to leave for awhile. We had all windows, curtains to cab, roof vents, and blinds shut. We returned about dark and all was still running. About 10:30 pm with thermostat set at 70 degrees the compressor cycled off for a few seconds. I thought finaly something worked. Then I checked out side and it was 69 degrees. Works great doesn't it?

[RJ82much]

Glen,

Forgive that I asked questions for items you have already looked at. It sounds like you have covered about everything,,, without luck. I have very little more to add.

One of my AC motors wouldn't start up after a winter storage. Our dealer is also the AC authorized repair shop so, like you, he got my unit for a week When I got it back, the motor had been replaced it with a new one, but also, like you it now seemed inefficient. So, (with fear in my heart) I climbed roofside & removed the AC cover. What a mess the certified, qualified techs left behind. The foam that was supposed to seal inlet/outlet/outside was crumpled, torn loose, misplaced & didn't seal much at all. They had bent the sheet metal so that the joints had come apart & didn't seal anything or contain cool air. Outside air was getting sucked into the chamber & blown into the MH. And, they had thrown all the scrap wire terminals, cutoffs, etc into the chamber to roll around & get stuck in God-knows-what. In summary, I totally redid the job & all is good. That bunch of hacks will never touch my property again.

Perhaps a topside exam under the cover, is in order?

Here's an idea... If you are in Indianna, maybe you should stop at the Napannee GS factory. They have a free campground to owners. The main offices are next door. The reception area is cool & comfortable while you wait for someone to talk with you & agree to have their service or factory people look at your unit. You won't be popular for just "dropping in", but insist that you won't be leaving their campground till your unit works. While you are there, enjoy the pool, golf course, & whatever else you can get out of them. Oh yeah, if the day wears on without results, insist you need to talk with Scott Pullin (VP of operations). You won't be popular with him either, but you will be taken care of.

I think you've suffered long enough.

[purduepete2]

Glen,

I have a 2007 BT 5291 with a 15000 BTU AC and gets the unit Ice cold in 90+ weather with all 3 slides out. As Bob said; you've got a problem that needs an RV technician.

[Frank Polimeni]

Hi All, I own a Gulfstream 6340. The past year has been a nightmare. I also had a AC problem. J&L RV in Fontana Ca fixed the problem. Seems GS did not insulate the from cab area entertanment center. It was a 115 degrees in one of the cabinets. GS said my six Show Dogs were the cause of my problem. I asked what is the differance between 6 adults at 150 lbs and my dogs at 40lbs? They didnt have an answer. Next day J&L called and GS OK'd insulating the front cab area and installing a 15000 Ac unit. All is cool now. I will post my nightmares later.



Frank Polimeni
Vista Ca.

[danangie]

Hi Glen,
I'm having the same issue with my 5291, did you ever get this resolved?

Dan

[bottieri]

Briefly:

The problem with this model and the A/C is air flow. The center outlet (the one on the unit at the filter), must be open or the unit freezes up.

Run the fan only for 15 minutes to thaw it out, then set the thermostat to a comfortable setting (72 or so) and open all the vents and turn it to cool. The problem will be solved.

No A/C unit will cool better or faster no matter how low you set the thermostat. Setting the temperature to say, 60 will not cool the coach faster or better to 72 than setting the thermostat at 72 and leaving it alone.

[john&scotty]

My 5291 does stay cool, but if you open the basement doors, you can feel alot of cool air coming out - you could suggest the the service center caulk the seams in the basement area

[bottieri]

john&scotty

I could be wrong, but I doubt there is anything to be chalked between the compartments and the living area. Those compartments are separate boxes. What you're probably feeling is the cooler air in the compartments actually falling out as warmer air enters. It may be cooler because of the compartment proximity to the floor of the living space, but not actually coming from the living space.

Well... that's my 2 cents worth. :)

[bottieri]

Hi All, I own a Gulfstream 6340. The past year has been a nightmare. I also had a AC problem. J&L RV in Fontana Ca fixed the problem. Seems GS did not insulate the from cab area entertanment center.
Frank Polimeni
Vista Ca.

Frank:

How did you determine that the front cab wasn't insulated behind the entertainment cabinets?

What did they do to correct that? I mean: how did they access it and what did they use to insulate the area?

Thanks for the info,

[purduepete2]

Pull the TV out and it will give you access to the cab over behind the entertainment center.

[bottieri]

Re: BT Cruiser 5291

Further to the A/C not cooling problems reported here.

Today I had a chance to investigate the installation and try to determine why maximum airflow is so important in order to keep the unit from icing over the evaporator coil. And, why so little air was coming out of the remote ducts. Here?s what I found:

1. There doesn?t seem to be an internal control to turn off the compressor before it gets cold enough to freeze the coil. If my memory serves me, it?s called a Pitot tube. I couldn?t find one! So that?s probably why the unit needs full airflow to prevent freezing especially when it?s very humid.

2. The air outlet and air intake on the unit aren?t sealed (separated) very well allowing some cold air to recirculate through the evaporator.

3. The duct system was poorly installed in that there is some sheet metal blocking the inlets to the ducts that distribute air fore and aft.

There is also a problem of Styrofoam and metal trash coming out of the ducts.

Here?s what I did to correct the installation problems, and I hope it corrects the cooling ability of the unit although I won?t know until I get on the road.

I highly recommend that you wear gloves while working around the sheet metal and duct inlets and outlets. The metal is brutal on your hands!

You will need some Aluminum heating - A/C duct tape. Not the common Duck-tape! Use only the rather expensive aluminum peel and stick tape. You don?t want tape coming lose in the vents someday plugging them.

? A. I removed the circular vents; wrapped masking tape around my fingers with the sticky side out, and carefully reached in and picked up (on the tape) all the trash at the outlets. This took several tries, but if you don?t get it out you will be sleeping with and walking on metal shards and Styrofoam beads, forever.

? B. While removing the trash from the ends of the ductwork, straighten the foil to smooth the outlets.

? C. Remove the filter/center duct assembly. There?s 6 screws ? two of which are under the round pop-out covers. A small screwdriver tip will pop those out.

? D. Use aluminum tape to seal the openings between the air intake (filter side) and the air outlet. Seal around the wires and the foam tape to the metal housing along the edges. Seal them real good, as there should be no leaks between the two sections.

? E. At the unit, look into the outlet side at the holes in the wood (that would be on both sides); you?ll see metal hanging down blocking some of the outlets. You?ll also feel some rough curled metal from when they cut the openings. I used a long ? square handle? screwdriver. Using the handle end you can get in there and bend the metal back so the opening is fully open (unblocked by any protruding metal). Using small strips of aluminum tape about 5 or 6 inches long, seal those openings so there is a smooth exit from the A/C housing into the duct. Be sure to press the tape into the crevasse fully and securely so it is firmly in place. The exits into the ductwork should be fully open and smooth with no metal blocking or disturbing the airflow. The duct, wood and A/C housing should be like one piece.


After I finished and reassembled everything, I found the volume of air coming out of the remote ducts is much greater now, and with the main outlet closed there is enough air coming out that I feel confident the bedroom will now be cool and the unit won?t freeze up. However, further testing will be required.

I?ll report further when I get on the road and use the unit normally.

Hopefully, this experience will be helpful and I?d sure like to hear from anyone about it.

[mfa]

Great report. Thanks!

[bottieri]

Follow up:

The other day while parked in Camping World parking lot in Orlando I noticed the extreme heat coming from around the forward cabinet and TV area. So, today I removed the front TV to inspect the insulation behind it and found that there was very little. Much of the area had none at all.

I purchased a small roll of R-30 attic insulation 'unfaced' (about 40 feet) and tore it up and stuffed it behind the cabinet areas being careful to get every space. I removed the two small speakers and stuffed insulation up into that area until it was full top to bottom. The last ten feet or so, was placed behind the TV in that area.

I then properly screwed the wood TV frame to the wall top and bottom. (The top screws were broken off and barely holding the unit. The two bottom screws were basically all that was holding the unit to the wall.) It was necessary to drill the top two holes into the cabinet so screws could be inserted properly.

There's not doubt in my mind that this job will make the A/C unit more effective.

FYI: I talked with the Camping World tech about putting an additional A/C in the forward roof vent hole and he said if there was 110 volt wiring in that area it could be done. I checked today and there is Romex there that powers the forward cabinet plugs. I believe it's heavy enough to power an A/C unit in addition to the TV. A new 13500 Penguin A/C unit installed is about $1k.

[danangie]

After taping between inlet and exhaust, smoothing the ducts, and just giving up and not running the AC through the ducts, I've resolved the issue!!! I went to another dealer and discussed my problem; he immediately said your freeze switch is not working. We walked out to my unit he stuck his hand up in the unit and said well even if it is working, it's not touching the coils so it won't do any good. Testing reveled the freeze switch was inop. A quick replacement of the switch and no more freezing of the coils when running through the ducts. BTW, we were in the unit this weekend and the temp was 103dF. But we were nice and cool with ducted cooling. The ducted cooling worked much better than the down flow bypass, it was quieter and more efficient. Not sure why I went through three dealers and hours of work myself before someone figured out this problem. But I guess all my extra work helped the system become more efficient.

[jmj437]

Gentlemen,
I had a simular problem with my 2004 BT Cruiser (M5270) recently. I purchased it used in March of this year. The coils on the unit would freeze over and not operate correctly. It a 13,500 BTU low profile ducted AC unit.

I called GS and was told that the unit may be low on freon. I took off the cover and was looking for a servicing connecting point. To my surprise there is no such animal on this unit. I recalled GS was told that these units do not have servicing points which really did not make any sense to me but what does these days. I was told the only choice I had was to replace the unit or have someone install a servicing port.

Called local AC shop and discussed the problem with them. Was told to try and clean the coils on the unit. Went to local Lowes and purchased a spray can of WEB coil cleaner. (Its an air conditioner/heat pump coil cleaner. Sprayed unit as much as possible after taking outside cover off. Waited a few minutes and cleaned off foam with a water hose. Waited for unit to dry and that did the trick. The unit works like it is suppose to. I cleaned out the ducts of the unit as best as I could. The duct on the left side of the cabin was 99.9 % closed. The silver tape had come loose and had blown up into the opening and closed it off. Once I replaced the tape, the ceiling ducting work just fine.

I just can't believe that someone would design an AC unit that can not be serviced. What were they thinking???????????

Hope you problems are fixed now. Happy RVing................

John

[boatguy]

We had the same problem with our s/n talked with duotherm about the iceing problem they had me check pressures move the iceing sensor and check all the ducts nothing worked so they blamed gulfstream for a bad install they told me just run the fan till it defrosts. the unit would ice even with the duct on the grill open i fixed the problem with 2 new carrier units no more iceing and a lot quiter probably could of just replaced the front unit it now can keep the whole unit cool i wish i did it earlier so much for gulfstreams bad install

[Frank Polimeni]

Hi All, I own a Gulfstream 6340. The past year has been a nightmare. I also had a AC problem. J&L RV in Fontana Ca fixed the problem. Seems GS did not insulate the from cab area entertanment center.
Frank Polimeni
Vista Ca.

Frank:

How did you determine that the front cab wasn't insulated behind the entertainment cabinets?

What did they do to correct that? I mean: how did they access it and what did they use to insulate the area?

Thanks for the info, J&L checked the temp in one of the storage cabinets. At 70 degrees outside temp the cabinet was 105 degrees inside temp. They pulled out the entertainment center and found no insulation at all. They first insulated the inside and built a wall to futher insulated it. With that job and a bigger AC 15,000 BTU, I have to say all is good now and I can keep my show dogs ( Siberian Huskys ) cooled down. By the way my coach has the dark color paint job on it. I have traveled across the country in extreme heat and humidity and no problems at all.[/list]