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View Full Version : Lets Talk Basement Heating (So wanter lines do not freeze)


David Bott
09-16-2009, 06:45 PM
Hi All...

Ok, some if you know we are planning a trip that leaves the upstate NY area the last week in November. This equals...COLD. Until we can make it down to the warmer areas, which should be just a few days, we are concerned with our water lines freezing up.

Now I know that our 2008 Tour Master has like 2 heat vent tubes in the under area compartment...but really, is that enough? Should we look to add in a few ceramic heaters?

What concerns me is where the water manifold is vs where the basement is. It really can not be heated where it is as it is behind a wall that is behind another wall.

So...any thoughts for those of you how have "been their and done that" with their Tour Masters?

Thanks

testerdennis
09-16-2009, 06:57 PM
Hey Dave, if you are that concerned about the line freezing why dont you just run some anti freeze through the lines. Once you arrive just flush them out and no worries.
Dennis

David Bott
09-16-2009, 10:45 PM
Well...We do like to drink and shower. ;) Seeing that we may boondock, really do need water. Not knowing how cold it will be where we may stop at night...it could be an issue. I can see why you mentioned it though, as it could work just fine if quickly passing through. But you never know what may happen along the way.

Thanks for the thought.

11B
09-17-2009, 12:28 PM
David, no need to worry just make sure you have turned on your heat (I have a knob in my third storage compartment to do this) so it heats the storage compartments.

My coach came standered with heaters built into the water and waste tanks. I live in Utah and store my coach outside from Nov. thru Feb with it pluged in and temp set at 40 degrees. No anti freeze no air blow out I just drain it at the low point drains and have not had a problem in two years.

holmesaw
09-18-2009, 06:21 PM
We leave for Arizona right after the first of the year, so I always winterize our unit (Sun Voyager) before the first freeze. We carry bottled water to drink and pink antifreeze to flush the toilet with. We just skip showers for a couple of days, or use campground showers. We do not run the furnace while driving as I shut the gas down for safety reasons. We get plenty of heat from the coach heater when on the road.

11B
09-18-2009, 06:44 PM
By the way David I have the same Aqua Hot system you have.

David Bott
09-18-2009, 06:54 PM
Hi...

I do not have a Aqua Hot system. :)

rdlamb
09-18-2009, 08:22 PM
Hi Dave, take care on your trip.

We have camped in a bitter cold winter, howling wind, and snow that was knee deep. The TM withstood all this, and more.
We used the propane heaters, as they have ducts into the basement.

I got worried, and put a ceramic heater in the basement. This turned out to be great, it heated the floors. No cold floors in the morning!

But, it was also unnecessary. The furnaces heated the coach, and nothing froze.

Travel safely,

rdlamb
09-18-2009, 08:24 PM
By the way, the Aqua Hot system is next on my list of things to add ......

David Bott
09-18-2009, 10:07 PM
Oh man!!! I better get moving Rick. :)

But really? Did you see the cost of that??? It's like $15K!!

rdlamb
09-19-2009, 10:23 AM
Actually David, I am looking at the Oasis systems. The Military uses them in many applications. I like the idea of a system that runs off my 150 gal fuel tank.

You should not have any problems with keeping your TM warm, including the basement. I do not know how GS rigged the heating vents, but even the water manifold did not freeze during our winter in the wilds of Montana.

Do you have an engine block heater? Also, make sure you winterize your fuel. I just used additives, and winterized #2 Diesel. If you go with #1 Diesel, your fuel per mile will greatly increase.

Forget traveling if there are: 1. Ice or packed snow on the road. You really do not want to experience a TM swapping ends while going down the road. 2. sand, or worse - gravel, on the roads. Nothing like replacing both windshields to make you appreciate your insurance deductibles; 3. salt. It rusts the dickens out of everything, but being from your area, you knew that.

Travel safely,

David Bott
09-19-2009, 10:47 AM
Hey Rick...

Any idea who installs them?? I am guessing it will fit into the hot water tank area. Not sure how the lines would be run for heating tough and I may be a real pain getting the fuel to it. Looks like it would be some job.

Not sure how far you have looked into it, but you have any apx costs?

rdlamb
09-19-2009, 10:08 PM
Hi David:
Not a lot of pain at all. The fuel tank had a T line in it already (at least on mine), the T- has a cap, that you would remove to hook up the line to the Oasis.
I was interested in 2 of them, the smaller units. Reason being that I want one for heat, and one for hot water. The 2 units combined are $10K, with me installing them.
Coachlight RV in Carthage Missouri is where I would have any work done. They are not GS, but I know the owners and trust them without question.

I think the Oasis is the only way to go.
How did your satellite system work out? As you may remember, the park we are in has poor wi-fi when the park is full. I suspect they cut back on their total broadband coverage after the season is over, which may explain why I have to use my tether to my Blackberry to use the internet. Oh well.
Take care;

David Bott
09-20-2009, 08:00 AM
Not sure if we should start a new thread or not on the G74 sat. :)

Install went well. Happy to help you do it as the unit would run you $4750 for the G74, D4 controller, and Hughes Modem. More or less I can get you to the point of the system being installed and powered up/tested. Then you would need someone like Bill Adams, to be for VAR to get it system up and running.

At this point I am good to go and will just need to activate my modem when ready to start paying for service.

Back on track...two units? I thought one could do both? Almost seems it would fit where the hot water tank is now. As you can seem you have peeked my interest and the company you mentioned will be along the our on our Route 66 trip. ;)

rdlamb
09-20-2009, 09:17 AM
Yes, one large unit is how many go. The reason I thought of the 2 smaller units is to have one running the hot water for showers, and one running heat. The smaller units will sit in one compartment space the I have, which would be convenient for me. Otherwise, one large unit will take up a whole compartment, that we otherwise need.

I have blueprinted the systems, graphically, and think they will not be that hard to install. Probably be able to do it over a week. Would be nice to have the space where the 2 heaters now occupy.

David Bott
09-20-2009, 09:24 AM
So Rick...It would not fit where the current hot water tank is now? 16w x 14h x 23d

rdlamb
09-20-2009, 12:08 PM
Not the large one. I was going to put the 2 smaller heaters where my furnaces are now, and reclaim the area where my hot water tank resides.

Are you sure you want to travel at the end of November? I'm guessing you will have feet of snow in Northern New York by then. If you have time, perhaps you should take your coach South, and store it somewhere, then drive South to meet it when you are ready to travel.

I know that S. Texas has many RV Parks where you can park your coach, hooked up to electrical, for about $100 per month. One park is $60, with 30 amp electrical. Just a thought, but the roads are clear now and may be very different in November.

rdlamb
09-20-2009, 12:15 PM
David:
I am looking at the Oasis system. I think the Aqua Hot is smaller. There is also a system that runs off propane.

Like you noted, expensive and not a job for the timid. Since I'm spending my kid's inheritance, might as well get one.

What did / does the satellite system weigh? I'd be interested in how you ran the power and lines through the roof. By the way, not many would install their own systems, you are unique.

David Bott
09-20-2009, 05:32 PM
The G74 is about 80 lbs. Their are 3 cables...2 Cat6 coax and 1 control cable. I installed the G74 right behind the sat dome and ran the cables across the roof to the front of the coach and into the cabinet to the right of the drivers seat.

I did not think about pulling out the heaters. But the heaters are above the basement so not sure that would work. Then again, if you researched it, you would know better than I. It is something I would have in a coach if I were to buy another coach. I think adding it could be costly. (hot water not so much to do I would not think, but the heat part could be.) Still may be worth looking into.

And yes, we have no choice to leave late November. We really would not want to bring the coach down south and then come back as we have Tasha. (our dog for those that do not know us.) Just crossing our fingers that we do not have much if any snow yet.

holmesaw
09-20-2009, 10:06 PM
I have been convinced that wireless internet was the emerging technology, at a signifigant savings over Sat system. What made you decide to go with the Hughes system? I have not gone wireless yet myself because where we winter in AZ the Verizon coverage is not very good yet. I just get a cable modem connect when we get there.

David Bott
09-21-2009, 08:18 AM
Ok, so we can help others on the Internet topic, I have started a new thread so it does not get lost here.

Here is the new thread. (I moved over posts.)

viewtopic.php?p=8679#8679 (http://www.gsowners.com/viewtopic.php?p=8679#8679)

Bryon Raymond
09-22-2009, 09:00 PM
Can I assume my 04 Atrium has basement heat via propane and/or electric furnaces? Did GS put basement heaters in all their large coaches? My previous coach ( not a GS )had elec/gas heaters and switched to engine heat while traveling. It was a nice set-up and I never had to winterize. I kept the coach on 30amp service while not in use and the elec. heaters kept the coach and basement warm in the coldest temps.

David Bott
09-22-2009, 09:14 PM
Hi Bryon...

I have to guess that your electric heat was heat pumps from the A/C's. As such, I am not sure how that would heat the basement. Again, I am just guessing as I personally not seen electric heaters in RV's other than new units with a fireplace and that is still not in the basement.

However for all I know your old coach had electric heaters in the basement. Scary I would think..but hey, if it worked.

I am not sure if GS put basement vents in all the class "A" coaches. In looking at mine, I can actually see two heat duct tubes, about 3 inches round each, coming into the basement from the floor.

I am not sure if their is one further back by the holding tanks or not, for I can not see in that area.

My next coach someday will have the Aqua Hot or Oasis system in it as I like that approach much better based on noise alone from the furnaces. But at this point, we have done so much with our 08 TM I think I will need to keep it for some time. :)

rdlamb
09-24-2009, 08:10 PM
Hi David:

On my options list is an "Arctic" package. I think GS offered the package, which included vents into the basement area. Otherwise, if your coach did not come with an Arctic package, I would visually check to see if there are heater vents into the coaches bowels.

Our propane tank, 40 gal, 100lbs, runs the coach in 0 deg weather, using electric hot water heater, propane coach heat, and propane stove, for just over a week. We had a propane service come by weekly to fill the tank.

The coach stayed warm, comfortable, and livable. Nicely, even heavy winds, driven snow, and ice storms were shrugged off and the coach stayed nicely warm. No complaints at all.

By the way, the Old Farmers Almanac is usually right on for long term planning. You might obtain one (I do not have a current one) at a local major bookstore and see what kind of weather you may be in for.

Travel safely David, that time of year is going to be difficult.

PChez
09-27-2009, 12:57 AM
Hi All...

Ok, some if you know we are planning a trip that leaves the upstate NY area the last week in November. This equals...COLD. Until we can make it down to the warmer areas, which should be just a few days, we are concerned with our water lines freezing up.

Now I know that our 2008 Tour Master has like 2 heat vent tubes in the under area compartment...but really, is that enough? Should we look to add in a few ceramic heaters?

What concerns me is where the water manifold is vs where the basement is. It really can not be heated where it is as it is behind a wall that is behind another wall.

So...any thoughts for those of you how have "been their and done that" with their Tour Masters?

Thanks


I don't have the TourMaster, but I have 2002 Gulfstream Scenic Cruiser and it come with heated black and gray tanks. The whole bottom compartments are heated and I have camped on some real cold areas of New Mexico and I never have had a water line freeze yet inside the coach. Now the manifold you are talking about, I have never had a problem with that freezing either as long as you have the furnace on, you will be OK.
Not sure what you have on your TM though. You might have Aqua hot or the other can't remember what they call it.

David Bott
09-27-2009, 07:00 AM
Hi...

Thanks for the note. Note, just two furnaces. One in the middle of the coach, and one in the rear for mostly the bedroom and master bath area.

I do have two heat tubes I can see. I am not sure if their is a third in the holding tanks area or not as that is more or less closed off.

But so far I am feeling OK about it all. One think I did not even know, and I am 42, is that it goes so cold down south. I really never though the southern end of the Grand Canyon for example got down below 30. You see, I never took into account the elevation. :)

Heck, we picked this time thinking it would be a great time to go down 66. But it is turning out, it seems we will be COLD DOWN ROUTE 66. ;)

PChez
09-27-2009, 07:55 AM
Hi...

Thanks for the note. Note, just two furnaces. One in the middle of the coach, and one in the rear for mostly the bedroom and master bath area.

I do have two heat tubes I can see. I am not sure if their is a third in the holding tanks area or not as that is more or less closed off.

But so far I am feeling OK about it all. One think I did not even know, and I am 42, is that it goes so cold down south. I really never though the southern end of the Grand Canyon for example got down below 30. You see, I never took into account the elevation. :)

Heck, we picked this time thinking it would be a great time to go down 66. But it is turning out, it seems we will be COLD DOWN ROUTE 66. ;)


It can get cold in the south rim of the Grand Canyon. I remember one year I saw snow as high as seven feet in Flagstaff, Arizona and that is right on route 66. Elevation is pretty high around that area. I have not read all your posts and am not sure what time of year you are planning your trip, but yes it does get cold there. Part of the Rocky Mountains. I will be going through there around the ninth of October. I am going to try and make the balloon fiesta in Albuquerque. I believe it lasts until the sixteenth of October.

David Bott
09-27-2009, 08:05 AM
Yeah, we planned leaving update NY late November, can't leave sooner, and was going to head south then West following RT66. Never thought we would have cold issues. Never even crossed our mind. Was thinking we would be out of the winter of upstate NY. ;) Looks like we will be visiting more of Texas. LOL

PChez
09-27-2009, 08:44 AM
Yeah, we planned leaving update NY late November, can't leave sooner, and was going to head south then West following RT66. Never thought we would have cold issues. Never even crossed our mind. Was thinking we would be out of the winter of upstate NY. ;) Looks like we will be visiting more of Texas. LOL

All you have to do is watch the weather channels on TV and you can travel all over the west. Not trying to discourage you but you got to be careful. Most of the time the weather is nice all over the western states, but like any other state they will have some bad weather every so often. If you have never seen the Grand Canyon, it is an awesome sight that you will never forget. You have to make that trip just watch the weather. :wink:

Snowbird 2
09-27-2009, 11:45 AM
We leave in Dec-early Jan from Central Canada and our cold is usually cold here. We just don't bother putting water into the rig, leaving it winterized, until we get into KS or NM which takes 2 days. We use the toilet with chemicals and water (taken in containers), if necessary en route but try to use our fuel and lunch stops for bathroom breaks or Walmart and Flying J's at nights where we usually stop. When it's cold you don't sweat too much so we manage without showering until the second night when we put water in the tank. Even though I don't think we may have a freezing problem, I won't chance it. It;s great fun being inovative, eh?

PChez
09-27-2009, 11:55 AM
We leave in Dec-early Jan from Central Canada and our cold is usually cold here. We just don't bother putting water into the rig, leaving it winterized, until we get into KS or NM which takes 2 days. We use the toilet with chemicals and water (taken in containers), if necessary en route but try to use our fuel and lunch stops for bathroom breaks or Walmart and Flying J's at nights where we usually stop. When it's cold you don't sweat too much so we manage without showering until the second night when we put water in the tank. Even though I don't think we may have a freezing problem, I won't chance it. It;s great fun being inovative, eh?

You guys are used to the real cold weather, so what we consider cold here in the south western part of the U.S. it probably feels like a heat wave for you guys. LOL!