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Truck55
04-23-2019, 12:01 PM
My newest problem (on this piece of crap) is my coach battery keeps going dead. Put brand new one on it. Made trip and camped for 4 days. Started up fine. Brought it home. Started it every couple of days. Then didn’t start it for about a week. Brand new battery was dead. Coach has been plugged up the entire time. Everything is turned off. Only thing on is the propane sniffer but I think it runs off the house batteries and doesn’t have an on off switch

04 sun cruiser w 2 slides on a ford chassis.

I will never buy another gulf stream anything. I see now why they quit making Class A’s

Restorium
04-25-2019, 06:24 AM
Plugging it in doesn't automatically charge the engine battery. Plugging it in charges the battery you use for stuff inside the motorhome.
You have a small draw on your starting battery.

Frutza
04-25-2019, 07:10 AM
Coach batteries are for the Rv, lights fridge slides ECT,
Chassis batteries are for the engine and motor related things
Coach batteries should charge while plugged in from inverter or converter. IF ITS TURNED ON AND IN WORKING ORDER
chassis batteries should charge from the engine
From here you need to see that your charging correctly and don't have any large draws on batteries

Restorium
04-25-2019, 07:31 AM
Coach batteries are for the Rv, lights fridge slides ECT,
Chassis batteries are for the engine and motor related things
Coach batteries should charge while plugged in from inverter or converter. IF ITS TURNED ON AND IN WORKING ORDER
chassis batteries should charge from the engine
From here you need to see that your charging correctly and don't have any large draws on batteries
Converter not inverter. The inverter changes 12v to 120, it doesn't charge the batteries.

Restorium
04-25-2019, 07:36 AM
If you want your convertor to charge the engine battery then you need to tell it to do so. Our motorhome has a switch for that on the dash. The switch connects the two battery systems together. Also, when you turn your key on it's supposed to connect the two systems together. Both systems have to be in good condition for either to work correctly.

Frutza
04-25-2019, 08:53 AM
Most inverters are inverter/charger
Also if he changed one battery, that is most likely the chassis battery, still does not explain the no start?
And usually the Coach has multiple battery set ups
You need a voltmeter to confirm charging, to start with

Restorium
04-25-2019, 09:41 AM
Yup. The simple answer is a bad alternator and weak coach batteries.
A more complicated answer would be an unknown power draw on the engine battery.

Once heard someone talk about how their engine battery discharged and it turned out that the switch that connected the engine battery with the coach battery was flipped on and there were some 12 v lights left on inside. All the batteries went dead in a few weeks.

Truck55
04-26-2019, 03:17 PM
Most inverters are inverter/charger
Also if he changed one battery, that is most likely the chassis battery, still does not explain the no start?
And usually the Coach has multiple battery set ups
You need a voltmeter to confirm charging, to start with

Coach battery is brand new. If I drive it for an hour or so the coach battery stays up for about 2 weeks. The converter charges the house batteries just fine.

Restorium
04-27-2019, 10:17 AM
Coach battery is brand new. If I drive it for an hour or so the coach battery stays up for about 2 weeks. The converter charges the house batteries just fine.
Find the draw/short, just like any other vehicle. Or plug it in and charge all the batteries while it's sitting.

CoachStreamr
04-27-2019, 07:33 PM
If you want your convertor to charge the engine battery then you need to tell it to do so. Our motorhome has a switch for that on the dash. The switch connects the two battery systems together. Also, when you turn your key on it's supposed to connect the two systems together. Both systems have to be in good condition for either to work correctly.

Does your dash switch stay in the position to connect both battery banks after you remove your fingers/hand?

On our Coach, I press that button and hold it down to connect both the House bank to the Chassis bank. Once I release the button it goes back and the banks are separate if I remember correctly.

I wonder if all Gulf Stream's do that when you turn your key on? I don't think our Coach operates like that.

I also wonder if it's smart for the converter/charger to charge two banks with different types of batteries. My Chassis batteries are two 12v in parallel and the House batteries are two 6v Golf Cart in Series.

.

Restorium
04-28-2019, 07:59 AM
Does your dash switch stay in the position to connect both battery banks after you remove your fingers/hand?

On our Coach, I press that button and hold it down to connect both the House bank to the Chassis bank. Once I release the button it goes back and the banks are separate if I remember correctly.

I wonder if all Gulf Stream's do that when you turn your key on? I don't think our Coach operates like that.

I also wonder if it's smart for the converter/charger to charge two banks with different types of batteries. My Chassis batteries are two 12v in parallel and the House batteries are two 6v Golf Cart in Series.

.
No telling what other models have. On ours the button will stay on, it's not a momentary switch.

You don't 'think' the key activates the connection solenoid? Possible …..

Before I gave any advice I went to youtube to confirm other models had the connection solenoid activated when the key was turned on. Posted one video here with a tutorial on that.

The last part you wrote about not being sure you can charge both sets of batteries at one time;

Be sure because that is an option on most all models. If it doesn't work it would be that your batteries are set up wrong.

Thanks for your skepticism. It's what keeps things right. :cool:

CoachStreamr
05-01-2019, 04:44 PM
The last part you wrote about not being sure you can charge both sets of batteries at one time;

Be sure because that is an option on most all models. If it doesn't work it would be that your batteries are set up wrong.



I was thinking if the two separate battery banks were at different charge levels: Start Batteries at 100%, House Batteries at 70% and how one charger would handle that and for the bank already at 100%, wouldn't want to over charge.

I assume we would want to start with both banks at 100% maybe.

.

RayChez1
05-05-2019, 12:35 PM
New batteries can go dead also. I have a brand new Buick Envision that I tow around and it has gone through two batteries already. Not the vehicle according to the dealer repair shop. He says they are not manufacturing batteries that are as dependable as they used to be. I guess most of this batteries are probably coming from over seas. But the QC is just not there. They seem in great condition one day, and the following day they are deader then dead.

Take your batteries and have them load tested or test them yourselves if you have a load tester.

jamesham
05-05-2019, 02:18 PM
I assume your new battery is really good and has been tested. It happens that sometimes a new battery is defective, or sat around in various warehouses for 2 years before being sold to you.

There are three simple solutions to your problem.
1. Find the engine battery drain and fix it. Probably very difficult and time consuming to find the load by pulling each fuse individually.
2. or put a post-terminal switch on the battery terminal to isolate the battery when parked long term. This will also eliminate any radio function while parked, and screw up the internal clock.
3. Buy a light-duty 2amp trickle charger that has auto shut off and leave it plugged into the engine battery to charge when parked and coach is hooked up to electricity.

IMHO the converter box is really a poor 6amp battery charger compared to the 70amp auto chargers available today. Unless you have an emergency start switch on the dash, the converter would ONLY charge the house battery not the engine battery.

[QUOTE=Truck55;27893]My newest problem (on this piece of crap) is my coach battery keeps going dead. Put brand new one on it.

BSAman
05-05-2019, 07:11 PM
When plug in to shore power On my 2005 GS 40DP , when sitting for 30 days or more , I run a jumper type cable from + on coach(house)batteries to + on chassis (engine) batteries...
On my two previous motor homes, the engine batteries were not automatically charged
When plugged in either...

proost
05-05-2019, 10:50 PM
My newest problem (on this piece of crap) is my coach battery keeps going dead. Put brand new one on it. Made trip and camped for 4 days. Started up fine. Brought it home. Started it every couple of days. Then didn’t start it for about a week. Brand new battery was dead. Coach has been plugged up the entire time. Everything is turned off. Only thing on is the propane sniffer but I think it runs off the house batteries and doesn’t have an on off switch

04 sun cruiser w 2 slides on a ford chassis.

I will never buy another gulf stream anything. I see now why they quit making Class A’s

Truck55 - do you have a trickle charger connected up to your chassis battery? I think that's what you're calling your coach. There is a slow loss on the chassis/engine batteries when they sit, even new ones and I had the same. I added a Keyline smart charger/trickle charger that I plug into one of the coach outlets so that when I plug the coach up in storage, the charger gets power and keeps the battery charged. You won't charge your chassis/engine battery by just plugging the coach in. Is that the answer you're looking for?

In my 07 Tourmaster, I have a chassis battery bank, a 12v coach bank to power my 12 systems in the coach, and a bank that is separate from the coach and provides 12v to the inverter up front. Confusing as hell! :)

Chuck v
05-06-2019, 09:05 AM
Phil,


The Tour Master coaches do indeed have three battery banks -- a parallel pair of 12 volt diesel starting batteries for the engine, another pair of deep cycle 12 volt batteries for the 'house' 12 volt lighting, etc. and the inverter bank of 4 each 6 volt batteries wired in series/parallel to give very high ampacity 12 volts to the input of the AC inverter.


The house batteries are charged from the 12 volt converter under the bed that is powered by shore power or by the generator, the diesel starting batteries are only charged by the engine driven alternator, and the inverter batteries are charged by the shore power (or generator...) being available to the input of the AC inverter. The inverter batteries are at the front of the coach under the windshield area and are also used to start the 7.5 KVA diesel generator. The house and the main diesel engine batteries are on the curb side of the coach just aft of the rear wheels.


Since I lived full time in my coach, I added a quality float charger/maintainer to the diesel batteries that was also powered from shore power. The house batteries were maintained from the 12 volt converter under the bed area in my coach and I never upgraded it to a more modern "maintainer" style unit so it was prudent to always keep the electrolyte level at the proper levels in the cells of the batteries. Since the location of them in the basement bay is a bit inconvenient for viewing the levels, I installed a watering system that uses floats in each cell to shut off the hand pumped distilled water flow when the proper level is reached. This made for easy watering every 3 months or so and greatly extended battery service life. I also had a similar watering system on the four front 6 volt batteries, and was very glad to have it each time I used it since access in that compartment was cramped as well.


Before I installed the shore powered maintenance charger on the diesel starting battery bank, when I ran the coach every three months or so I often needed to utilize the momentary switch on the dash connecting the house and engine batteries to get the diesel started. Once running, the engine driven alternator would bring those diesel batteries up rather rapidly -- but I am sure I shortened the battery life by letting them get so discharged. After I installed the float charger, I never had any issues...


Chuck

proost
05-06-2019, 09:44 AM
Phil,

..................

Chuck

Hey Chuck,
Thanks a LOT for this. Exactly what I have except that in my T40A, my chassis and house batteries are on the road side of the coach.

When I bought her, the house batteries were deep cycle AGM maintenance free. The charger I installed was a simple to use maintainer that would read the power, charge, shift to trickle/float, and if needed would desulfate. Here's a link: https://amzn.to/2vFKYG7 So, when I park it, everything's getting juice except the bank up front.

Last month, I swapped out those deep cyle 6Vs for the inverter and replaced with 4 LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) 12Vs in parallel. I would also eventually like to upgrade my inverter to a pure sine wave model. I would love to hook up solar but with the two separate banks, I'm scratching my head on how best to do it!

I really love this model of coach. I'll have to pick your brain on any issues that pop up, like my leveling system which is a bit wonky at the moment! Thanks again.

Chuck v
05-06-2019, 10:27 AM
Phil,


I did replace my inverter with a pure sine Magnum unit and was pleased with the result. I know that this model has a 'sealed' battery profile so it would support your LiFePO4 batteries charging profile.


Because I have a lot of past experience in solar systems for remote locations (I worked for Photron Inc. in Willits, CA and had a home off-grid on 40 acres out of town a ways...) I personally feel that properly maintained flooded cell lead acid batteries are the most economical long term, but other chemistries are gaining in reliability if not in economy.



The issue with any parallel system charging is that a discharged cell is a high impedance, so the charging current does not take that path and causes very inefficient 'topping' of the parallel bank. This is also why any parallel bank needs to be composed of same age & same brand/model of battery to work well. If any battery should fail in such a parallel system, all should be replaced with new...this might be quite expensive on your present 4 battery inverter bank.


My off-grid home had an inverter that was a 24 volt input, so it ran from a 4 battery bank that was series connected. These were L16 batteries rated at 420 AH and 6 volts. Heavy and awkward, but gave great service live of more than 10 years and were charged with solar panels and occasionally with a gen-set.



When I had a small travel trailer for hunting, I replaced the two parallel 12 volt batteries with a pair of series connected 6 volt golf cart batteries and got much better dry camping performance and better service life as well -- again this is due to the difficulty in charging and using a parallel lead acid battery configuration.


As to the leveling system on the coach -- yes it is a bit funky. I replaced my controller card once but never got the fully automatic functioning I expected. I did get quite skilled at using the system manually, and can tell you that with a 288 inch wheelbase this coach nearly level before you start so finding a nearly flat and level place to park is a first step. This was not an issue in a developed RV park, but can be a challenge in other locations.


Chuck

proost
05-06-2019, 11:54 AM
Phil,

As to the leveling system on the coach -- yes it is a bit funky. I replaced my controller card once but never got the fully automatic functioning I expected. I did get quite skilled at using the system manually, and can tell you that with a 288 inch wheelbase this coach nearly level before you start so finding a nearly flat and level place to park is a first step. This was not an issue in a developed RV park, but can be a challenge in other locations.


Chuck

Great reply and thanks again. Hey, I'll start up a new thread on leveling because I'd like to see what you did and explain what I have. Interested to hear more.

05-11-2019, 12:50 AM
My Tourmaster has an engine battery on off switch that I always turn off after shutting the engine down to prevent anything draining the start battery.

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-03-2019, 08:32 PM
What does the dash switch look like that tells it to charge both sets of batts?

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-03-2019, 08:33 PM
Where is the batt on off switch located?

Chuck v
08-03-2019, 10:10 PM
Bill,


There is no switch that charges both sets of batteries, but there is a momentary switch that allows the house and chassis batteries to be TEMPORARILY connected together to get the engine started. it has an icon tht looks like a battery (third fro the left in the below picture...)

http://www.gsowners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=615&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1556719447

Chuck v
08-03-2019, 10:11 PM
The house and chassis battery main switches are typically in the step well as you exit.

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-04-2019, 07:21 AM
Thanks Chuck! First thing I did when I bought my coach was to label all the switches. Drives me nuts that they weren't labeled. There are a bunch of switches in the well that aren't labeled, included a red switch. I didn't find any momentary switches. I did find what looks to be a bunch of basement door switches though.

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-04-2019, 07:21 AM
Yeah, mine don't have anything with a battery on it. No icons at all. It is very frustrating.

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-04-2019, 07:29 AM
Chuck, this reply is very helpful and made me think about something. You said the Golf Cart batts start the gen. My gen won't start, won't even turn over. No noise, nothing. Could it be that all 8 batts are dead? And if so, what would cause that? Last time I ran the engine and gen was in May sometime. Or could it be that there is a master switch somewhere that I've turned off? As it is now, I am going to charge my 4 batts in the aft starboard side but not sure how I will be able to get the gen batts charged just yet. I pulled the gen out and didn't see any batts up under there.

Lesson learned here, start the coach and gen once per week and let it run for a while.

Restorium
08-04-2019, 07:52 AM
Chuck, this reply is very helpful and made me think about something. You said the Golf Cart batts start the gen. My gen won't start, won't even turn over. No noise, nothing. Could it be that all 8 batts are dead? And if so, what would cause that? Last time I ran the engine and gen was in May sometime. Or could it be that there is a master switch somewhere that I've turned off? As it is now, I am going to charge my 4 batts in the aft starboard side but not sure how I will be able to get the gen batts charged just yet. I pulled the gen out and didn't see any batts up under there.

Lesson learned here, start the coach and gen once per week and let it run for a while.
What does your battery indicator say on the control panel?

Normally your batteries will stay charged. No need to start the coach once a week.

Chuck v
08-04-2019, 10:02 AM
The battery charge indicator in the status panel on my coach that contains the tank level indicators and the propane level only shows the state of the house batteries. The inverter battery charge indicator is on a separate panel in the overhead entertainment equipment cabinet next to the front TV. I did not have a charge indication of any kind for the chassis batteries...


If you left the inverter on last May and you have a load that is always present like a residential refrigerator then the inverter/generator start batteries would certainly be dead by now. Look at the level of electrolyte in those cart batteries as they are a bit difficult to fill in that under windshield location and probably did not get regular maintenance service from the prior owner. I put a set of watering caps on mine with the squeeze bulb pump to make it easier to fill and check using the fill indicator on each cap. Did the same for the house batteries since the basement bay was not that much easier to check electrolyte level there as well.


A good plan with a new-to-you used coach is to replace all the batteries now so you KNOW their age and condition and begin a regular maintenance schedule at that point.


Chuck

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-04-2019, 10:56 AM
Absolutely zero indication. Nothing works at all on the coach, except the headlights and they are very dim. Can't get any other lights to come on, not even the radio.

UAHaerospace
08-06-2019, 05:57 AM
dead battery...that's common indications

it doesn't mean your battery can't be revived, but it has been drawn down so far very little will actually 'work'...
also, in many RVs, the 'radio' is actually powered by the HOUSE batteries...

UAHaerospace
08-06-2019, 06:15 AM
and, yes, the aggravation of 'non labeled' switches is, unfortunately, common with some builders... it's like a 'test' to see if you can figure it out!

the 'AUX' or 'EMERGENCY START' switch, a 'momentary' switch, is designed to link both sets of CHASSIS and HOUSE battery banks, so that you can either start the GENERATOR, or start the ENGINE, etc., if one of the banks are low. You can hold the switch in position for as long as you need to to keep the banks connected.
This switch is usually located on the dash.

the Use/Store switch, usually located near the entrance, is a UP or DOWN switch.... with UP being in the 'USE' position of having the HOUSE batteries powering our 12v fuse panel for all of your 12v lights, fans, water pump, furnace, etc., and also your INVERTER, generally.
The DOWN 'STORE' position DISCONNECTS the battery bank from the 12v fuse panel, for storage - when you don't want the HOUSE batteries to be used.
Most RVs, though, don't actually disconnect 'everything' when the switch is in STORE mode, since some safety devices, such as propane and co2 detectors always want to be powered. These will continue to draw down the batteries, albeit slowly.

Also, even if you are 'plugged in', and expect your Inverter's CHARGER, or Converter, to charge your HOUSE batteries, and even your CHASSIS batteries, if it has that capability, you must have the switch in the USE(up) position, as this allows the Charger to get it's charging power to the Batteries.

Generally, in most motorhomes, the HOUSE batteries power almost everything, even sometimes what you might expect the vehicle's CHASSIS batteries to power - such as the GENERATOR, the RADIO/VIDEO system, the Hydraulic Leveling JACKS, etc.

Only the the items that are solely vehicle related, or are tied to the ignition, will be powered by the Chassis battery bank, such as the engine starting, vehicle lights, but even including the automatic STEPS, as they are triggered by the ignition, and the door opening/closing, as a safety measure.


enjoy!

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-06-2019, 10:14 AM
and, yes, the aggravation of 'non labeled' switches is, unfortunately, common with some builders... it's like a 'test' to see if you can figure it out!

the 'AUX' or 'EMERGENCY START' switch, a 'momentary' switch, is designed to link both sets of CHASSIS and HOUSE battery banks, so that you can either start the GENERATOR, or start the ENGINE, etc., if one of the banks are low. You can hold the switch in position for as long as you need to to keep the banks connected.
This switch is usually located on the dash.

the Use/Store switch, usually located near the entrance, is a UP or DOWN switch.... with UP being in the 'USE' position of having the HOUSE batteries powering our 12v fuse panel for all of your 12v lights, fans, water pump, furnace, etc., and also your INVERTER, generally.
The DOWN 'STORE' position DISCONNECTS the battery bank from the 12v fuse panel, for storage - when you don't want the HOUSE batteries to be used.
Most RVs, though, don't actually disconnect 'everything' when the switch is in STORE mode, since some safety devices, such as propane and co2 detectors always want to be powered. These will continue to draw down the batteries, albeit slowly.

Also, even if you are 'plugged in', and expect your Inverter's CHARGER, or Converter, to charge your HOUSE batteries, and even your CHASSIS batteries, if it has that capability, you must have the switch in the USE(up) position, as this allows the Charger to get it's charging power to the Batteries.

Generally, in most motorhomes, the HOUSE batteries power almost everything, even sometimes what you might expect the vehicle's CHASSIS batteries to power - such as the GENERATOR, the RADIO/VIDEO system, the Hydraulic Leveling JACKS, etc.

Only the the items that are solely vehicle related, or are tied to the ignition, will be powered by the Chassis battery bank, such as the engine starting, vehicle lights, but even including the automatic STEPS, as they are triggered by the ignition, and the door opening/closing, as a safety measure.


enjoy!

Thanks! Most of my switches near the entrance aren't labeled so I have no idea what they do. I cannot tell if I even have the use/store switch. And, I definitely do not have a battery connection switch anywhere. As of now, my coach starts, gen starts and everything works fine. I will keep checking to see if the draw is heavy or light.

I am not plugged in at the moment. I tried that and I fried the GFCI on my shed and tripped the shed breaker. So that didn't work well.

Restorium
08-06-2019, 10:20 AM
Thanks! Most of my switches near the entrance aren't labeled so I have no idea what they do. I cannot tell if I even have the use/store switch. And, I definitely do not have a battery connection switch anywhere. As of now, my coach starts, gen starts and everything works fine. I will keep checking to see if the draw is heavy or light.

I am not plugged in at the moment. I tried that and I fried the GFCI on my shed and tripped the shed breaker. So that didn't work well.

You should disconnect the power convertor and try plugging it in again.

UAHaerospace
08-06-2019, 10:50 AM
try plugging it in again, with either a new GFCI shore outlet, or a regular one... as it's probably nothing to do with your coach that caused this... and a tripped breaker is common with RVs, but it's doing it's job, no worries...

turn off most all of the 120v items in the coach before plugging in, including the Electric Water Heater, if you have one, the Inverter's Battery Charger, etc., or you can even more easily just flip off all your coach's breakers except for one that serves an outlet that you can then test to see if it works....then start adding the other breakers.

Yes, if you are plugging into a normal 15a GFCI outlet, you can certainly trip it's breaker quickly because you may have many items in the ON mode, or ready to come one, when Shore Power is available...just limit those, and you'll have few issues.

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-06-2019, 11:30 AM
You should disconnect the power convertor and try plugging it in again.

Ok thanks! Where is that and what will that do?

RayChez1
08-06-2019, 01:54 PM
Check all the batteries and replace them if they show bad. You got to have good batteries. You do not show on your signature what coach you own. If you were to tell us what coach you have we might be able to help you with more accurate information.

Summer heat is very hard on batteries. I just replaced a couple of my chassis batteries while visiting Las Vegas. But they had been in my coach for at least seven years, so it was time. Bought two commercial heavy duty batteries at Napa for around three hundred bucks. Cranks that Caterpillar engine right up. So good batteries either the chassis or the house is very important. They are expensive, but RVing as a whole is. Maintaining those batteries is very important. So I think you might need to change some batteries if they show they are bad IF you want your problems to go away.

08-06-2019, 02:51 PM
Where is the batt on off switch located?

On my 2000 Tourmaster, I have an on off switch for the Cummins start batteries that's located along with some large breakers on the passenger side hatch immediately forward of the engine.

Capt_Bill_USMC
08-07-2019, 10:17 AM
Check all the batteries and replace them if they show bad. You got to have good batteries. You do not show on your signature what coach you own. If you were to tell us what coach you have we might be able to help you with more accurate information.

Summer heat is very hard on batteries. I just replaced a couple of my chassis batteries while visiting Las Vegas. But they had been in my coach for at least seven years, so it was time. Bought two commercial heavy duty batteries at Napa for around three hundred bucks. Cranks that Caterpillar engine right up. So good batteries either the chassis or the house is very important. They are expensive, but RVing as a whole is. Maintaining those batteries is very important. So I think you might need to change some batteries if they show they are bad IF you want your problems to go away.

Thanks! My battsa are good, no issues. They were just so dead that they needed to charge for a bit. The coach started up and so does the gen just fine, no issues.

BTW, I have a '94 Tourmaster 8391.