2009 Supernova 6372 build thread

[pwerwagn]

Hi all! Been a lurker for YEARS, as I have a 2005 Gulfstream 6316 Conquest Super C with the 8.1 with a whole bunch of mods/upgrades (fixing to be for sale). I learned a ton reading on here about the issues with the Kodiak Chassis Super C, and I have read a bunch about the shortcomings of the 4200 chassis as well, and I am comfortable taking on the challenge!

My Parents bought this 2009 6372 Supernova a few years back when my Dad retired. It was his dream to own a Supernova for many reasons. He recently passed away unexpectedly so I purchased it from my Mom to keep it in the family and keep my Dad's dream alive. We use our current Super C to tow our boat, our truck that we desert race, etc. We spend a lot of time in the dirt and absolutely love our current Super C, and we are looking forward to many good times with the new one.

I was a diesel mechanic for a few years, so I am very aware of the 6.0/VT365 short comings. I have already done studs and new HG's, new oil/egr cooler, TS MP8 pressure box, etc. I have checked the FICM, and voltage is good. I am currently talking to a few FICM tuners about a FICM tune, because mine is grossly underpowered. I was hoping the FICM was weak, but unfortunately its in good shape. My 8.1 in the 6316 loaded to the same weight will run circles around this VT365 on hills and in town. I also have an issue with the fan clutch as many others have. Mine is purely mechanical unlike the truck 6.0, and even after replacement it will never shut off. I recently readjusted the engagement temp on the clutch, and it still runs 100% of the time. I will adjust it a few more times, and then might bite the bullet and throw in a Horton EC450 clutch instead of elec fans.

My Dad and the previous owner also addressed some of the other shortcomings. My Dad replaced the main slide controller with one that can control the motors independently in case they get out of synch. The rear suspension was replaced with a rubber shackle mount setup (I'm drawing a blank on the name). It has Road King shocks all around. The RV drives like a dream, other than the noise from the fan and the lack of power.

Anyhow, just wanted to say hi. I know a few of you have done cool things like exh brakes, egr delete, water/meth injection, etc. that I will probably inquire more about!

--Jeff

[RayChez1]

It seems like you have lots of mechanical knowledge about these coaches. You are a lucky man because they can get complicated at times. Best of luck and enjoy.

[pwerwagn]

Here is a picture of the RV, towing a 29' Yiro deck over Trophy Truck trailer:



It seems like you have lots of mechanical knowledge about these coaches. You are a lucky man because they can get complicated at times. Best of luck and enjoy.

Thanks Ray! They certainly can get complicated. But a challenge is always fun!

--Jeff

[pwerwagn]

Here's another pic of it parked with my 2005 Conquest in Bloomfield, NM:

[pwerwagn]

Little update to this thread.

In my quest for more power, I removed the muffler/cat and it’s now 4” from the downpipe back with a straight thru diamond eye muffler. Noise is no different, spool seems a little better. I’m taking it on another trip this weekend to compare to last weekend. I also added a scan gauge so I can monitor EOT mainly. I already have analog boost/egt gauges.

I also am in contact with a shop working on tuning for the VT365. He already has a FICM tune that will work (I suspect the hyper max was only modifying ficm values). He has an econo tune and 40hp and sone bigger but will likely have egt issues with over 40.

Also figured out my ICP sensor wasn’t functioning correctly so I replaced that. I will see if the MP8 works any better with a good sensor, or perhaps the mp8 killed the sensor.

Other than the major lack of power compared to my old 8.1 super C, were loving the supernova. Drives way better, and much nicer once parked.

I’ll update as I get more tuner info if anyone’s interested.

Jeff

[Joshdmoore]

Little update to this thread.

In my quest for more power, I removed the muffler/cat and it’s now 4” from the downpipe back with a straight thru diamond eye muffler. Noise is no different, spool seems a little better. I’m taking it on another trip this weekend to compare to last weekend. I also added a scan gauge so I can monitor EOT mainly. I already have analog boost/egt gauges.

I also am in contact with a shop working on tuning for the VT365. He already has a FICM tune that will work (I suspect the hyper max was only modifying ficm values). He has an econo tune and 40hp and sone bigger but will likely have egt issues with over 40.

Also figured out my ICP sensor wasn’t functioning correctly so I replaced that. I will see if the MP8 works any better with a good sensor, or perhaps the mp8 killed the sensor.

Other than the major lack of power compared to my old 8.1 super C, were loving the supernova. Drives way better, and much nicer once parked.

I’ll update as I get more tuner info if anyone’s interested.

Jeff

Thanks for the update. I am very interested, I love my gulfstream just wish she had more power.

What scan gauge did you add?

Josh

[pwerwagn]

Hi Josh,

I put in a scan gauge D. It was ~150$ and gives you some extra gauges like oil temp, egr position, exhaust back pressure, etc. Unfortunately it does not have IPR, ICP, VGT or FICM voltage values.

I have the list of added PID’s to program in if anyone needs them.

Jeff

[pwerwagn]

Here are all the “x gauges” that can be programmed into the scan gauge for the VT365. It looks like a lot of work but it’s not bad once you have these codes. The owners manual will tell you how to program, takes about 2 minutes per added gauge and you can add 25. There are already ~20 or so before you add these. I watch oil temp and coolant temp next to each other. It also has all sorts of fuel mileage stuff, cost per mile, 0-60/ 1/4 mile timers, etc.

The PIDS below will save you a lot of time. I had to do a scan and manually input about 65 16 digit codes to scan gauge and about a week later one of their reps sent me back which ones were gauges with the inputs below. You can skip the whole section about retrieving codes.

Driver's Demand Engine - PercentTorque(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002040000
RXD: 2008
MTH: 00010001FF83
NAM: User Defined

Actual Engine - Percent Torque(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002040000
RXD: 2808
MTH: 00010001FF83
NAM: User Defined

Engine Speed(rpm)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002040000
RXD: 3010
MTH: 000100080000
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Output Shaft Speed(rpm)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002020000
RXD: 2010
MTH: 000100080000
NAM: User Defined

Percent Clutch Slip(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002020000
RXD: 3008
MTH: 000200050000
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Input Shaft Speed(rpm)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002020000
RXD: 4010
MTH: 000100080000
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Torque Converter Ratio(Ratio)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F0020C0000
RXD: 1810
MTH: 000103E80000
NAM: User Defined

Accelerator Pedal Position 1(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002030000
RXD: 2008
MTH: 000200050000
NAM: User Defined

Engine Percent Load At Current Speed(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002030000
RXD: 2808
MTH: 000100010000
NAM: User Defined

Front Axle Speed(MPH)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02BF0000
RXD: 1810
MTH: 001F32000000
NAM: User Defined

Relative Speed; Front Axle, Left Wheel(MPH)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02BF0000
RXD: 2808
MTH: 001F0320FFFB
NAM: User Defined

Relative Speed; Front Axle, Right Wheel(MPH)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02BF0000
RXD: 3008
MTH: 001F0320FFFB
NAM: User Defined

Relative Speed; Rear Axle #1, Left Wheel(MPH)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02BF0000
RXD: 3808
MTH: 001F0320FFFB
NAM: User Defined

Relative Speed; Rear Axle #1, Right Wheel(MPH)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02BF0000
RXD: 4008
MTH: 001F0320FFFB
NAM: User Defined

Hydraulic Brake Pressure Circuit 1(PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FD02E60000
RXD: 1808
MTH: 001D00020000
NAM: User Defined

Hydraulic Brake Pressure Circuit 2(PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FD02E60000
RXD: 2008
MTH: 001D00020000
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Selected Gear(gear value)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002050000
RXD: 1808
MTH: 00010001FF83
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Actual Gear Ratio(Ratio)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002050000
RXD: 2010
MTH: 000103E80000
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Current Gear(gear value)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11F002050000
RXD: 3008
MTH: 00010001FF83
NAM: User Defined

Nominal Friction - Percent Torque(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02DF0000
RXD: 1808
MTH: 00010001FF83
NAM: User Defined

Engine's Desired Operating Speed(rpm)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02DF0000
RXD: 2010
MTH: 000100080000
NAM: User Defined

Engine Oil Pressure(PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02EF0000
RXD: 3008
MTH: 001D00320000
NAM: User Defined

Engine Coolant Level 1(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02EF0000
RXD: 5008
MTH: 000200050000
NAM: User Defined

Engine Intake Manifold #1 Pressure(PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02F60000
RXD: 2008
MTH: 001D00640000
NAM: User Defined

Barometric Pressure(PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02F50000
RXD: 1808
MTH: 001D01900000
NAM: User Defined

Engine Intake Air Temperature(F)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02F50000
RXD: 4008
MTH: 00090005FFD8
NAM: User Defined

Engine Oil Temperature 1(F)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02EE0000
RXD: 2810
MTH: 000900A0FE35
NAM: User Defined

Transmission Oil Temperature 1(F)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02F80000
RXD: 3810
MTH: 000900A0FE35
NAM: User Defined

Fuel Level 1(%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 11FE02FC0000
RXD: 2008
MTH: 000200050000
NAM: User Defined

Percent Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve #1 Position (%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 011B00000000
RXD: 0808
MTH: 000200050000
NAM: EGR

Barometric Pressure (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 016C80000000
RXD: 0808
MTH: 000A00100000
NAM: PSI

Injector Metering Rail #2 Pressure (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 018180000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100010000
NAM: IRP

Exhaust Back Pressure (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 018300000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000104000000
NAM: EBP

Mass Air Flow (lb/min)
TXD: 00
RXF: 018400000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000700190000
NAM: MAF

Extended Range Fuel Delivery Pressure (Absolute) (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 018780000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100010000
NAM: XFP

Auxiliary Vacuum Pressure Reading (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 018880000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100010000
NAM: AVP

Auxiliary Gage Pressure Reading #1 (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 018980000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100010000
NAM: AGP

Engine Oil Temperature (Degrees Fahrenheit)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01AF00000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100040000
NAM: EOT

Transmission Output Shaft Speed (RPM)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01BF00000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100040000
NAM: TOS

Jeff

[Joshdmoore]

Jeff,

Hey thanks for all the great info. I have been looking at the scangauge D just had not ordered one yet. I will be ordering one soon.


Josh

[pwerwagn]

The muffler seemed to drop EGT about 50* or so. The max I can get it to with the TS turned all the way up is ~1175*. I didn’t notice much for power. Maybe a touch quicker spool.

Gonna try out some FICM tuning next and see what we can make happen there.

Jeff

[SlimTim]

Jeff (or anyone else) I pulled the water/methanol injection off of my 6400 SN if you are interested in it. I always used cold wether blue washer fluid in it as it would not freeze and cold weather washer fluid is mostly water and methanol and a very small amount of soap. When running the system the EGT temps were reduced by 50 to 100 deg. I took the system off my SN because I am doing some other mods to the engine and I no longer need the injection system.

[pwerwagn]

So as mentioned, I have been unhappy with the cooling fan on my VT365. It runs nonstop, and its been replaced twice. I have adjusted the bimetal spring on this latest one (both were clutches purchased from IH, not ebay or something), and it still is on all the time. It is super loud, and has to suck up tons of power at 3Krpm.

I went ahead and bit the bullet and bought a Horton EC450 electric fan clutch. I am going to run it off a manual switch and a temp sensor. I will probably have it kick on at something like 200/210, since mine always seems to run right around 195 right now.

I also bought a small pusher fan that I will mount in front of the ac condenser that will be on when the AC is on.

I also sent my FICM out to get it "upgraded", and then I will be sending it to get a tune loaded into it.

I will let you guys know the outcome!

--Jeff

[SlimTim]

Jeff,

One other idea you may want to look at with your SN is enabling 6th gear in the transmission. To get the most benefit from this modification you could lower your rear diff ratio for off the line starts and pulling hills. But with 6th gear enabled you can still keep your top end speed. I spoke with my local Allison service center (Pacific Power Group) about doing this with my 6400, and they said yes it could be done. They had to check with the Allison factory to confirm as some vehicle OEM's restrict doing so. Apparently International did not put any such restrictions on my chassis so Allison had no issues with enabling 6th. I also have contact information for an Allison technician that can supposedly open up 6th gear remotely if you connect your vehicle to a computer. Or you can send him your TCM.

[SlimTim]

I found this document (VT365 HP and Torque curves) on gsowners a number of years ago and thought I would post it again.

[pwerwagn]

Thanks for the info Tim! I had suncoast lined up to reflash my TCM but at the last min they said they couldn’t. I talked to Matt Lazier at Allison and he said I can go thru a local Allison shop to get it done.

Just gotta decide where I draw the line and do a motor swap. ;-). Either way 6th enable will be of benefit.

Jeff

[pwerwagn]

Little update:

Got the horton EC450 installed, huge difference in noise. I havent taken it out on a trip yet to see if theres any power to be gained, but I will this weekend.

I got the FICM back and it had 4 bad modules in it. They rebuilt the FICM and it starts better, sounds better, revs cleaner, etc. Hopefully this helps out some too (and its now lifetime warranty and hopefully prevents me from being stuck on the side of the road with a dead FICM). I have not sent it for the tune yet as I want to see how it runs with these mods before changing more stuff. I also blocked off the EGR while I had the doghouse out.

I also finished sound deadening the interior. I put 80mil butyl noico on the firewall and floor, and then 315mil noico red foam on the fire wall and 150mil noico foam on the floor. I covered the doghouse in 80mil and 315mil. I also did 80 mil/315 mil in the doors. When I had the doors apart, both doors had the weatherstripping/guide for the glass in the tracks fall out. It was making the windows noisy when I rolled them down. Simple fix.

For any of you looking for a tune, Bill at PHP is now selling the tuner:
/https://gopowerhungry.com/orion-reflash-system-for-navistar/

--Jeff

[pwerwagn]

Took the SN out for a trip this weekend. The changes made a pretty decent difference. The ability to turn the fan on and off is nice, and up the bigger hills that were pulling me down from ~65 to 30-35, I gained 5-7mph.

The sound deadening made a humongous difference, much more enjoyable to drive now.

I also got in touch with someone Tim referred me to, and sent him the info about my trans and he is double checking that he can enable 6th gear.

We are taking off on a ~4K mile trip in 2-3 weeks, so I will report back more later!

I did not spring for the tuner yet with my trip coming so close. I will get some miles on it as-is for more good data points then put the PHP Orion tuner on it and see how it goes.

--Jeff

[LTC_R]

Hi all, been watching this thread for a bit, anyone finally pull the trigger on the 6th gear? Any feedback on doing it? I had the rear end gears changed from the stock 5.29 to a 4.88 a while back and it really mad a change to the way it cruises on the highway (somewhat slower off the line and merging, but better at 65-70 MPH). I usually run about 1800-2000 rpm on the highway and am steady at 70MPH, fully loaded and towing my jeep wrangler unlimited. I'm interested in the 6th gear, maybe I should go back to the 5.29 rear end and enable the 6th gear, let me know, thanks.

[pwerwagn]

I have not pulled the trigger yet. I was planning to do it before this trip I am on, but ran out of time.

I am considering 5.57 and 6th gear. That combo will lower my 70mph rpm by ~250rpm or so, and give me more low end.

I’ve put about 1k miles on it this past week on our trip and the Horton fan makes a world of difference. I have not put it on a temp sensor yet so I have to pay attention to temps, but I’ve been turning the fan off on most hills and it seems to make at least 5mph difference, and even more on the hills that I downshift out of 5th. Spinning 3000 in 4th you can absolutely feel the power difference with the fan on vs off. I put a small pusher fan in front of the condenser hoping that was enough air for 90% of the time, but hills in NM and 100* heat need the big fan more like ~30% of the time. Around town though, the small elec fan works good, just not enough fan for the freeway and hills and heat.

The FICM repair seemed to make a big difference too in how it runs. It smoothed it out a lot. I also threw some archoil 9100 in the T6 when I changed oil and it got rid of the small shudder at ~2500 under load, so that likely was stiction in a spoolvalve.

My ICP or pigtail seems to have gone bad again and I left my spare at home. So I can’t run the MP8 right now. It actually seemed to help a lot more after I had the FICM rebuilt, so perhaps the MP8 was stressing the FICM and I wasn’t getting the power I should have.

When I get back I’m planning to do the PHP Orion Tyne first, and if I still need a little more I’ll do the gears and 6th enable.

Otherwise it’s running great now!!

Jeff

[Vinnie]

Jeff,

Who did you send the FICM to for repair? Are you running an upgraded FICM power supply (e.g. Bulletproof Diesel) or the stock version?

Thanks for the information you are sharing - helps us new owners!

[pwerwagn]

Hi Vinnie!

I sent it to Shannon at FicmFixer in Texas. I had planned to send it to Ed at ficmrepair but since I’m close to Texas Shannon got it turned around and back to me super quick (shipped out Monday had it back wed!!). He also did it cheaper that his website said, I think 150$ with lifetime warranty. I talked to him for a long time about the vt365 version. He can test the FICM as well.

He said I had 4 bad modules. I had planned to send it to PHP to get the eco tune in it also but figured I would see what it did fixed. Made an improvement.

I can’t wait to see what the php orion does. I think the tuner combined with the 6th gear and differed gears in t he diff will make a big improvement. If not...a cummins swap will!

[Vinnie]

Thanks.

I am very curious about the PHP tune. I noticed this in their instructions that seems odd to me:

"Once you have programmed the ECM with the modified calibration, you will be able to select from 7 different power levels. These levels range from 175 HP to 300 HP and can be selected and changed in just a matter of seconds"

Since our units are already rated at 300hp, I'm wondering if you gotten any feedback on the potential for power increase from PHP?

[LTC_R]

Been following this and had some time to do some calculations, so thought I'd share some thoughts.

Found a pretty good RPM vs MPH calculator at the Spicer website that looks pretty accurate with what I actually get going down the road. You can change the ring and piñon gear ratio, tire size (255 70/22.5 is 36.6 inches), engine RPM, and transmission gear ratio to get a calculated MPH. The link is:https://spicerparts.com/calculators/transmission-ratio-rpm-calculator

I've attached the spec sheet for the Allison 2500MH transmission we have in our rigs that I found on the Allison website. From it, you can get the transmission gear ratios.

I am very curious to know the results that anyone gets when/if they do get their 6th gear activated. When I had my engine rebuilt and bulletproofed, I also had them swap out the 5.29 ring and piñon for a 4.88 ring and piñon gear ratio. I run about 2100-2200 RPM on the highway which is 62-65 MPH. Using the calculator, the 6th gear (0.64) would drop those RPMs to about 1850 at 64 MPH, that's attractive for fuel mileage and lowering the noise. It's sluggish off the line, but does ok once you get into the higher RPM power band.

Appreciate your thoughts, keep 'em coming. Thanks.

[pwerwagn]

So I’ve talked to Bill quite a bit about it. The instructions are mainly for the 444 engine in school busses.

The FICM portion of the tuner will be similar to the eco, atlas 40 and atlas 80 (maybe the Hercules 100 as well). You can do a LOT of reading on those tunes on trucks. He can reflash your FICM for 150$ without needing the tuner. The eco alone will remove the lag. And 40 should be fine for our setups if you remove the stock muffler.

The ECM portion he was still working on last time I talked to him.

We also talked about using the ecm tune to control the vgt for use as an exhaust brake. The power from the ecm tune doesn’t stack with the FICM 1:1, meaning a 40hp FICM Tune stacked with a 40hp ecm isn’t 80, it’s more like 60.

I’m hoping for the ecm and FICM To add 40-60 hp, then the exh brake control and ability to delete the egr valve.

[Vinnie]

Makes sense. Thanks, Jeff.

[pwerwagn]

Been following this and had some time to do some calculations, so thought I'd share some thoughts.

Found a pretty good RPM vs MPH calculator at the Spicer website that looks pretty accurate with what I actually get going down the road. You can change the ring and piñon gear ratio, tire size (255 70/22.5 is 36.6 inches), engine RPM, and transmission gear ratio to get a calculated MPH. The link is:https://spicerparts.com/calculators/transmission-ratio-rpm-calculator

I've attached the spec sheet for the Allison 2500MH transmission we have in our rigs that I found on the Allison website. From it, you can get the transmission gear ratios.

I am very curious to know the results that anyone gets when/if they do get their 6th gear activated. When I had my engine rebuilt and bulletproofed, I also had them swap out the 5.29 ring and piñon for a 4.88 ring and piñon gear ratio. I run about 2100-2200 RPM on the highway which is 62-65 MPH. Using the calculator, the 6th gear (0.64) would drop those RPMs to about 1850 at 64 MPH, that's attractive for fuel mileage and lowering the noise. It's sluggish off the line, but does ok once you get into the higher RPM power band.

Appreciate your thoughts, keep 'em coming. Thanks.

If you go to grimmjeeper.com you can use a calculator that allows you to put 2 sets of inputs side by side and see the changes easily. I do a lot of rock crawling and desert racing so it’s a pretty useful tool.

My setup currently is 2350 at 65 according to the tach and scangage and just shy of 2600 at 70. My thoughts are 6th gear enable with 5.57 would drop my 70mph to 2350, and allow me a “taller” gear to downshift into (5th) for hills than the current 1:1 (4th) with 5.29’s.
Right now I’m downshifting from 5-4 at 62 mph which puts me at ~3000. If I had the 5.57, 5th at 70 would be 27-2800. My other thought is 6.17 with 6th which would be similar overall to what I have now with an extra gear thrown in.

As far as noise, killing the fan makes a HUGE difference. I need a bigger pusher fan to control the heat a little more than the small one I am running, and I think the big fan would rarely be needed. I might clean the radiator as well.

The other interesting thing is IAT with the fan on vs off. It stays 100-125 fan on WOT and fan off it will rise into the 170’s due to less air thru the IC, which increases EGT 50-100*.

Jeff

[pwerwagn]

Thought Id update this a bit..

So we did a 4260 mile trip this summer, and it runs much better now. It wasn't extraordinarily happy up some of the longer hills in the montana area with 75-80mph speed limits, but it did MUCH better on the steeper hills in the colorado area (i.e, the million dollar highway coming out of ouray, I was able to run the speed limit and actually accelerate up hills after a corner, with the Jeep unhooked).

We towed the 4door JKU everywhere. Scaled between 28 and 30Klbs on avg depending on fuel and water. Our avg over the 4300 miles was 7.6mpg. About the only issue I had was the drivers tank not wanting to fill the passenger tank quick enough for my liking, but no huge deal.

I also had an issue ~200 miles into the trip with the ICP sensor failing again. Having had it happen before, I knew what it likely was. It died on me in eastern NM at Russels truck stop, but restarted no problem. I left and it died 2 more times before getting on I40 again. Once on I40, it was fine until we got into traffic in amarillo, then it would die everytime we came to an idle. I figured out that if I kept TPS above like 10% and rode the brakes a bit in traffic, it was ok. Once parked, I realized it was likely the ICP again, so I unplugged it and it was fine the rest of the trip. The ECU defaults to a table for ICP values, so it doesnt hurt anything to have it unplugged. The only draw back was, when you unplug it, the TS MP-8 no longer functions so I had to do the whole trip without the MP8.

The cab sound deadening made a world of difference. I did the noico 80mil on as much of the firewall as i could, the doghouse, and the floor. Then I put either the 150 mil or the 300 mil foam over all of it. Was definitely worth the time.

After we got back, I took the electric pusher fan off. I think it was actually hurting more than it was helping. After removing it, I don't have to turn on the engine driven fan much at all. I took a ~250 mile trip with my flatbed trailer with my 2005 Cummins on it, before fuel and water I was 35,360 combined. So full I was approaching 37K (I know, way over GCW). It handled it good. The changes I made have allowed it to top hills at this weight at the same mph it was topping hills all stock. All of the little mods have added up to help so far. Max EGT, engine temp, etc with the fan on is never an issue. Even if you let it get up to ~215*ECT, it will bring it back down to 190 or less in about 1 minute. EOT has never exceeded 225*, well within internationals defuel limits.

The Orion tuner is my next move. I hope to have a report on that sometime in October.

I am also talking with a different fan clutch company about a 2 speed fan that is always on ~20%, and then you can turn it on to 100%. I think the 20% fan speed would be enough to RARELY ever need the fan on 100%. The issue with never turning the fan on (in our 100* weather anyways), is that the trans temp and IAT start to get a little high. I think just a little air flow would help those out a bunch. Seeing as how much gain I have noticed with the fan off, I think its worth the hassle of pursuing this. I do like having the mechanical fan for downhill however. It will slow the RV down an extra ~5-10mph depending on RPM with the fan on vs off, which is nice.

Just a random tid-bit of info: source engineering has published data of cooling fan hp draw, but not for the VT365. However, on the 6.7ISB they are claiming 71hp draw and on a C9 cat, 42.6. Based on the gains I have seen, I would venture to guess we are closer to that 71hp, especially when up around 3Krpm.

--Jeff

[bhplumber]

Jeff,
Where did you order your Horton clutch fan? I was thinking of going to an electric fan to try to recover some HP but after you pointed out the mechanical fan helps slow the coach since there is no exhaust brake I think I’ll try your option.
Did you ever get 6th gear unlocked in your trans? I’ve heard both that you just have to find the right tech and that it’s impossible. Any info would be appreciated.

[pwerwagn]

I actually got mine off eBay. I had heavily considered doing 2-3 Ford Taurus 2 speed fans (sounds like a bad idea, but Taurus fans move some serious air), but then stumbled on this clutch on eBay so I tried it. It’s not perfect but it’s Substantially better than the viscous one that was on mine. I wish the Horton was like 20% on when off.
https://kit-masters.com/ has different styles of clutches that I think would work better. It really seems like if the clutch pulled 20-30% when off, it would almost never have to cycle on.

I have not got the 6th gear unlock done yet, mostly because I don’t think mine will pull 6th gear. I’m waiting to see how much the Orion tuner adds.

Jeff

[Gemini John]

Thanks for all the new info. Don't read here enough. I will certainly be reading more this winter as I get a knee replacement Nov 4th. But I want to go back racing next year and I'm pushing the envelope on weight. The electric 2 speed fan clutch sounds great. I've already been through 2 OEM fan clutches. Bullet proof oil cooler and stainless EGR, cat delete and Heads have been done. MP8 and the best care I can give her. Cheers all.

[pwerwagn]

Thanks for all the new info. Don't read here enough. I will certainly be reading more this winter as I get a knee replacement Nov 4th. But I want to go back racing next year and I'm pushing the envelope on weight. The electric 2 speed fan clutch sounds great. I've already been through 2 OEM fan clutches. Bullet proof oil cooler and stainless EGR, cat delete and Heads have been done. MP8 and the best care I can give her. Cheers all.

Nice setup! Hope the knee replacement went well too! I think if Kit Masters had a fan that would do 2 speed, that would be the ticket. My horton is working good right now with the cooler weather, I towed the rock crawler last weekend and only had to turn the fan on once on a long hill (~32Klbs).

I havent talked to Kit masters, but I did get an email from a guy saying they could make something work. If you talk to them, let me know!

-Jeff

[Vinnie]

Jeff - did your FICM failure cause the truck to die underway? We're stuck in Gallup since Friday night. Rig got progressively smokier from tail pipe and then engine got super rough and had to pull over. Doesn't want to start and if it does it idles terrible and dies.

[pwerwagn]

Hi Vinnie! Sorry I didn’t see this sooner.

Mine did not cause it to die underway, but I’ve been around 6.0’s that have. That’s why I fixed mine ahead of time.

There’s an excellent 6.0 mechanic here in Albuquerque if you need any help.

I have had my ICP cause mine to die underway. You can unplug the ICP (passenger valve cover, towards the front). It will run without the ICP, and run normal.

Hope you got it fixed!

If you need any help send me a message. You can test the FICM with a voltmeter.

[Vinnie]

Ended up having to do a quick winterization and leave the coach in Gallup.

No codes in computer but still no start. Seems like issue with high pressure oil system to me.

Shop is chasing bad lift pump (tandem pump on our units). These are on national backorder at International dealers and generally don't seem available used.

I think they are on the wrong track, though. They pulled the top off the filter housing and removed filter, then cranked the truck. Didn't see fuel so they think pump is bad.
According to International service manual, system is designed to stop fuel flow if filter is not properly installed and tightened - protective measure for injectors.

Do you have contact info for the mechanic in Albuquerque? I may end up having to get coach transported.

[Vinnie]

Scratch that about the filter housing. I had the fuel flow out of sequence in my mind.

[pwerwagn]

Ended up having to do a quick winterization and leave the coach in Gallup.

No codes in computer but still no start. Seems like issue with high pressure oil system to me.

Shop is chasing bad lift pump (tandem pump on our units). These are on national backorder at International dealers and generally don't seem available used.

I think they are on the wrong track, though. They pulled the top off the filter housing and removed filter, then cranked the truck. Didn't see fuel so they think pump is bad.
According to International service manual, system is designed to stop fuel flow if filter is not properly installed and tightened - protective measure for injectors.

Do you have contact info for the mechanic in Albuquerque? I may end up having to get coach transported.

I put a fitting on the filter housing of mine to check fuel pressure. It will build pressure while cranking if its all good.

If they dont get it all ironed out let me know and I can put you in touch with a great 6.0 mechanic. Most 6.0 shops arent as versed with the VT as the 6.0 so their scan tools wont read them, but still better than a random mechanic.

Where is the 2nd lift pump at? I thought we only had the engine driven pump down by the bellhousing.

[Vinnie]

There doesn't seem to be any fuel getting up to the filter housing at the moment even with cranking.

The engine driven pump is the only one but it is a combination pump for power steering and fuel lift. I've found one used one and had metal particles in it. We've put in a "critical outage" request to try and get one but no ETA yet. There doesn't seem to be a rebuild kit either. I'm tempted to just have them install an aftermarket electric pump.

[pwerwagn]

Any luck yet Vinnie?

I actually carry around a cheap spare inline electric fuel pump for this reason. It fits my rock crawler, my race truck, and I have fittings with it so I should be able to adapt it to my supernova and my other diesels. Decent insurance for a 75$ spare pump.

[Vinnie]

Finally got some news today - NOT GOOD.

Turns out the lift pump was fine, they just didn't prime it correctly the first time around. These tandem pumps are still not available either from International nor the used market so a backup replacement is a good idea, as long as it can meet the spec. I had purchased an AirDog kit but they took a second look before installing it.

Worse news, when they started looking at it this week they found metal and coolant in the oil pan, so it looks like replacement engine time. So much for Bulletproof. Hopefully, the service contract will cover a big chunk of this.

[duster299]

so 6th gear ? anyone get it unlocked yet ?��

[CTMICH5]

Any updates on this post?

[pwerwagn]

Any updates on this post?
Just been using it! Stayed in it 38 nights so far this year, put about 5k more miles on it.

Next upgrade is the cab stereo, it’s terrible! Then at some point I hope to do something similar to what slimtim has done but I might go the dt466 route.

[CTMICH5]

I have been doing a ton of research into this it may all depend on your budget. Looking around the Cummins shops are doing the swaps to 6.7 ISBs for school busses, I have seen prices from $18k-30k reported. I am going to drive mine for a few years and plan to pay a Cummins shop, they do everything including programming…. With warranty on the engine… worth looking into, I have been looking at engines and for a good shape used engine it can be $8-10k alone plus labor parts pieces and still had to be programmed…. Food for thought..

[pwerwagn]

I have been doing a ton of research into this it may all depend on your budget. Looking around the Cummins shops are doing the swaps to 6.7 ISBs for school busses, I have seen prices from $18k-30k reported. I am going to drive mine for a few years and plan to pay a Cummins shop, they do everything including programming…. With warranty on the engine… worth looking into, I have been looking at engines and for a good shape used engine it can be $8-10k alone plus labor parts pieces and still had to be programmed…. Food for thought..

I have been doing tons of research as well, and talking to Tim a lot on his thoughts during/after his swap. I have done ~12 or so 6.0 to Cummins swaps in trucks (and a few chevy's, some older dodges, etc). I actually have a 6.7 short block with a 12v p pump head I was originally going to put in the supernova, but the transmission poses another problem as even a mild 887/913 pumped 12v will make far more than the 2500mh is rated for.

My second thought was a mid 90's 8.3/MD3060 combo. I had actually found one, but again, after thinking thru all the other little ancillary details with Tim small items like cruise control, hvac, etc might end up posing as large of a challenge as doing something like an ISL.

My original thought was a DT466/530/570, but most of them are low power and nobody made a tuner other than an MP8 or similar. However, now that there is a tuner for all of the 2 box ECM/IDM IH's, a 466 swap is feasible with benefits. The issue with the 466 is finding one with low miles. I have found a few in trucks (box trucks, etc) with low miles, but the few I have found are 6 speeds and not auto which just adds to the complexity of the swap.

My end goal is simplicity. I have plenty of other vehicle projects, including a cummins swap already in the shop, and the last thing I need is a motorhome tying up a bay for a year haha. Plus we use the heck out of it even when the kids are in school so I'm hoping something easy will pop up! An ~04ish DT466e/ally 3K out of a 4300 IH would be awesome, and should be a simple-ish swap! (Famous last words...)

--Jeff

[bhplumber]

I called Cummins and they told me the repower will only work on buses, not our truck chassis. No explanation why just that it wont work. I may try calling again to see if I can get a different answer from a different person, May say it's a bus and give them my VIN to see what happens then. I just cant believe IH would go to the trouble of making a bus chassis different from a truck chassis as far as engine/trans. Let me know if you find a shop that will actually do the swap with warranty. I leaning that way if it can happen. The repower is still WAYYY cheaper then upgrading my coach. Plus I really like my SN I just hate having the worry in the back of my head of engine failure.

[CTMICH5]

Anyone ever find a shop that will unlock 6th gear? Called every shop around Reno while traveling I-80, nobody would do it..

[Vinnie]

Finally got some news today - NOT GOOD.

Turns out the lift pump was fine, they just didn't prime it correctly the first time around. These tandem pumps are still not available either from International nor the used market so a backup replacement is a good idea, as long as it can meet the spec. I had purchased an AirDog kit but they took a second look before installing it.

Worse news, when they started looking at it this week they found metal and coolant in the oil pan, so it looks like replacement engine time. So much for Bulletproof. Hopefully, the service contract will cover a big chunk of this.

At long last, "The Beast" is back at home. Ended up getting a replacement engine ordered through Albuquerque International dealer (Robert's?) and installed by the shop in Gallup. Engine turned out to be a Reviva reman but seems solid so far. The shop was able to re-install the Bulletproof oil cooler without voiding the new warranty. Mechanic did a nice job reinstalling the engine and accessories including rerouting the BP oil hoses in a much cleaner fashion. A new radiator and intercooler were included.

Drove back to Colorado Springs last Friday; coach ran great and seems to have plenty of go.

Warranty covered most of the cost so we are only out-of-pocket about $1800 for the repair (phew!). Engine alone was $16,600 from OEM.

Looking forward to some end of summer use and attempting to repeat the Thanksgiving trip that started this adventure. And now back to fiddling with everything else on the coach....