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Old 12-06-2006, 12:58 PM   #1
azgayle
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Default kitchen drain/black tank

I'm distressed and disgusted to learn that my kitchen sink drains into the black tank, by design according to the warranty department. Can't be healthy to have the possibility of the toilet backing up into the kitchen sink, which mine has. Anyone have any personal experience with this? or with getting it changed? My passenger side bathroom sink also drains into the black tank.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:28 PM   #2
GStream40
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Welcome to the Gulf Stream Owners RV Forum!

What model Gulf Stream do you have? You can list the information in you signature and it will be on every post like many of us have done.

I knew that Gulf Stream does drain the bathroom sink into the black tank when possible to provide the needed liquid for the tank, ours does.

But I didn't know about the kitchen sink. I wouldn't care for that either. I know for a fact that our kitchen sink does not drain into the black tank.

Ron
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:35 PM   #3
Timothy
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You must have a fifth wheel, or I don't see how it would be possible for your black tank to back up into your kitchen sink. I'm wondering if there is some type of plumbing code that would forbid this? Please let us know what model/year your RV is.
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Old 12-08-2006, 02:02 PM   #4
RJ82much
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Hi AzGayle! Welcome...

Since time began, owners have wondered & shop "experts" have reported all kinds of information (& disinformation).

Heres the results of the actual test I ran on my '05 #8351 Sun Voyager:

"I emptied both tanks, flushed them out really good & closed the valves. Then I ran several gallons thru the kitchen sink, and confirmed that water drained from the grey-water tank. Likewise, the toilet water entered the black-water tank. Though that may seem to be a "duh" statement, remember, we had a member with the tank outlets reversed!

I was able to confirm by the same method, that the bathroom sink empties into the black-water tank, and the shower goes into the grey-water tank. (at least in my 8351 Sun Voyager.

Summary: Grey-water -> kitchen sink & shower
Black-water -> toilet & bathroom sink"

Even though you have an "Ugh" factor at the thought of kitchen sink going to black tank, it shouldn't be a problem. The purpose of sink traps is to provide a water seal to prevent odors coming through the pipe. Your toilet would overflow before sewage would back up into the kitchen sink.

The shower MUST definitely empty to the grey water because a full tank could result in overflow into the shower stall base (Theres' a REAL ugh factor with the wrong tank!

That said, I would be unhappy with kitchen sink emptying into black tank, because the major usage of water is that sink. And the most critical plumbing function is the toilet. You really don't want to be filling the toilet tank unnecessarily, because, when you gotta go, you GOTTA GO!
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:31 PM   #5
GStream40
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Bob,

In a 5th wheel, the black tank can back up into the kitchen sink before it does in the toilet, the toilet is higher than the kitchen sink.

Azgayle has not furnished the information on what GSC unit she has, but I suspect it is a 5er since she has experienced the back up condition.

Ron
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:41 PM   #6
Timothy
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Gayle sent a PM to me, she said she has a 39' Sun Voyager, so maybe you MH guys can help her. She didn't say what year it was. I assumed she had a fifth wheel for the reason Ron stated, that the toilet would have to be higher then the sink to cause a back up, however she didn't go into details on how the back up occured.
Does anybody else have their kitchen sink going to the black tank? The only thing that goes to my black tank is the toilet. I can understand having the bathroom sink going to the black tank too, but I wouldn't want the kitchen sink to, just going down the road may cause the trap to loose its water and odors could enter the coach.
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Old 12-09-2006, 09:38 AM   #7
azgayle
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Default kitchen drain/black tank

Thanks guys, everyone of you, who have responded. I'm really surprised how many thoughtful answers I've received here.

The first response, from Ron, suggested adding what type of coach I had. I didn't know how to respond to the post, so I changed my profile thinking that would show up. Of course not. But I'm learning!

I have a class A, '05 Sun Voyager, model 8388, gas, Workhorse chassis, 4 slides. It has two bathroom sinks - one on the driver side with the shower, and the other on the passenger side with the toilet, and the kitchen sink.

And for the record, if I don't shower in the coach, or use the DS bathroom sink, there is no water in the gray tank, ever. There is no question the kitchen sink drains into the black tank, and no question that it did back up into the kitchen when the black tank was cleaned and back-filled by a plumber, who almost had a heart attack.

Ron has suggested a contact at Gulf Stream who might provide me with a schematic. I can't wait to find out!

Thanks again for all your help and ideas and support!

oh, and a p.s. here - I've been at Freedom RV in Tucson, on Gulf Stream's request, for evaluation of my very long list of complaints about my coach. The Freedom service people have been terrific, but after a week of checking everything out, and sending pictures and explanations to Gulf Stream, they have been ordered to cease repairs. I'm now to go to another service center, in Southern California, late next month, for further review. Apparently pictures of the roof lines of my coach have led GS to believe I might actually be correct when saying this coach was not put together properly. None of the slides have worked smoothly since day one. But that's another story.

'newbie' Gayle Mishler
most recently from Tumacacori, AZ
[email protected]
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Old 03-07-2007, 01:35 PM   #8
azgayle
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Default Gulf Stream finally responded

Want to thank everyone who showed an interest in this topic - I finally received a response from Scott Pullin at Gulf Stream with a schematic of the plumbing in my model 8388 coach and indeed it is plumbed 'correctly' with the kitchen sink water draining into the black tank. The purported reason is to add water to the black tank to help with clogging problems. I still don't like it, but it just means I must be careful about watching levels and emptying the black tank about every other day for just me, myself and I! Oh well.
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Old 03-07-2007, 03:36 PM   #9
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Gayle, thanks for the update. I must say I'm shocked that GS released any drawings!!!

Well at least now you know for sure.......Tim
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy
Gayle, thanks for the update. I must say I'm shocked that GS released any drawings!!!

Well at least now you know for sure.......Tim
Tim, I have received many wiring schematics from GS that I asked for and some that I didn't but were related to the item I questioned GS about.

So they are available if requested to a specific problem or item. They do not release all prints as a policy.

Ron
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Old 03-07-2007, 08:30 PM   #11
Timothy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GStream40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy
Gayle, thanks for the update. I must say I'm shocked that GS released any drawings!!!

Well at least now you know for sure.......Tim
Tim, I have received many wiring schematics from GS that I asked for and some that I didn't but were related to the item I questioned GS about.

So they are available if requested to a specific problem or item. They do not release all prints as a policy.

Ron
Thanks Ron, that's good to know. I thought all Gulf Stream prints were locked in a guarded vault and only released by an act God!
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:58 PM   #12
hyall
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It can't back-up into k-sink it would over flow from the toilet rim first lowest point of gravity the sink is apprx 36 inches above floor and in your house if on a septic tank everything flows into it whats the difference, EPA (grey)holding tank less pullution
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:44 AM   #13
Larry Moore
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Here's something to mull over. AZGAYLE said it backed up when the plumber back filled the black tank, if the toilet foot valve is closed and you pressurize the black tank with more force than can escape through the vent it will at least blow the water out of the sink traps. How was the back fill done and or is the vent plugged?
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Old 03-13-2007, 07:35 PM   #14
azgayle
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Default kitchen drain/black tank

Hi Larry - I'm not sure how, exactly, the back-fill was performed - I was in the coach. I just know the plumber used my site's fresh water to somehow backfill. He had told us to keep an eye on the toilet level, but the flush vent was closed. I was in the kitchen so I could relay the 'stop' when my friend in the bathroom saw water coming up into the toilet. The kitchen sink and bathroom sink backed up at about exactly the same time the water rose into the toilet bowl. Suzie yelled, I yelled and the plumber almost fainted! Seems wrong to me, still, but what do I know...I just use the thing, I don't "design" them! If the designers want to have extra liquid to flush the stuff, why don't they just make the grey tank drain thru the black. Rhetorical...no answers needed! )
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:16 AM   #15
Larry Moore
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azgayle
I think your plumber was using an out side flush connection to fill the black tank. With the tank drain closed he probably pressurized tthe tank enough to force water back up into the sinks. Under normal use this would not happen. He may not have known you should not run a lot of water into a black tank when tha drain valve is closed.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:21 AM   #16
azgayle
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Thanks Larry - he claimed to be an RV specialist, but you could have fooled me!
gayle
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:41 PM   #17
ken white
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Default Re: kitchen drain/black tank

My Canyon Trail Y27FRES Fifth wheel has the same issue, kitchen sink and toilet share a 40 gallon tank, while my shower and bathroom sink share an 80 gallon tank...

But, the kitchen sink is on the lower living level, while the toilet is on the upper bedroom area, so the bottom of the toilet is on nearly the same plain as the sink trap...

How poor of a design is this from a sanitary and water volume perspective?

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