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Old 01-28-2018, 02:29 PM   #1
Dave J
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Default Slow crank no start

Hi,

This is an epic saga!

I have a 2003 Gulfstream Friendship Quattro. The unit has a 3126 7.2l diesel engine. It has 80,000 miles on the clock. I bought the unit in October 2016 and hired a driver to deliver it to my home about 2,000 miles away. It was driven here and according to him it performed perfectly. It was winterized and parked in my driveway for the winter. When I came to start it in the spring of 2017, it cranked very slowly and wioud not start. I figured oxidised or rusted battery leads, so I cleaned them all. Still slow crank! I took the batteries out and tested each on a car I have. Both performed perfectly. I then figured perhaps the solenoid. I finally found the exact model (new) and purchased it. After installation still slow crank and no start. I then figured that the starter motor was flakey so finally found the identical starter motor (new) purchased and installed it. Still slow crank Finally I gave in and purchased two new batteries (1000CCA) group 31. Made no difference, the crank is too slow to start the unit. So now I have absolutely no idea what else to look at.Now that we seem to be getting the odd day above freezing, I wanted to sort this out hopefully before my better half gets on my back about a wasted purchase that we have never been able to use! Phew! Any help would be greatly appreciated .

Thnks


Dave
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:20 AM   #2
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Default Battery Chager

Sorry, read it again.
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Old 01-30-2018, 05:23 PM   #3
Burkejonathan
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I’m having the Exact same problem with our Gulfstream T 40 B at this very moment!

I didn’t change the starter but had it running the other day on a jump. After replacing the batteries, and bridging the house with the engine I can’t even get it to start.

Anyone have advice for us?

Thank you,

Jonathan

2007 T 40 B
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:39 PM   #4
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Hi Jonathan,

If and when I figure mine out I shall message you. Unfortunately it may be a few days as we have been dumped on with close to a foot of snow today, so no climbing underneath right now.

Cheers


Dave
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:31 PM   #5
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Default Warm the engines up

You both need to figure out a way to warm those engines up. I don't know sh@@# about diesel motors but I do know they don't start well if they are cold. Build a fire. Take some big smoldering logs and put them under the engine. Warm up some big rocks! Get a dipstick block heater or an engine heater blanket but warm them up somehow. Then they will start. If you do get them started start them every day while its cold.



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Old 01-31-2018, 01:36 AM   #6
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Hi Sudsy,

Thanks for your reply.

I don' think my problem can be just heat because this has been a problem for a year now and our summer was hot but it still cranked over very slowly. Actually it will only crank for about 4-5 seconds.

I think though your idea of a block heater is excellent and I shall purchase and install one ... when the white stuff leaves!

Thanks again.

Cheers

Dave
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:55 PM   #7
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You should already have an engine heater installed. The cord/plug should be hanging down from the top of the compartment where the power cord is
installed.
The heater plug will need to be plugged into a 120 volt electric source for a couple of hours.

Ron
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:59 PM   #8
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One other thing, check to see that your engine start batteries are wired/connected correctly so that you are drawing 12 volts from both at the same time.

Ron
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:38 PM   #9
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Hi Ron,

Thanks for your 2 replies, I will not be able to check for a while as we are heavily snowed under and it looks like with the predicted temperatures there will be no meling for at least 7 days. As soon as I can I will respond in this thread.

Cheers


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Old 02-02-2018, 05:31 PM   #10
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Very similar experience with our SN6331. Have you tried jumping it off? Our SN was doing the same thing and I figured the batteries were just weak. Put the charger which has a start boost. At first it did the same thing with the boost on, put it back down to 20 amp charge for about 30 mins came back out, turned the boost back up and cycled the glow plugs a couple times and she fired right up. Just something else to try if you haven't. House batteries fired the generator right up...which was weird because last year I had to the same thing to them a couple times.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:03 AM   #11
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Dave , you probably need to use a volt meter, check your battery voltage during crank, then check the voltage at the starter during crank, you need to be over 10.5 volt min.
Cats use the engine oil to fire the injectors, so if the engine isn't turning over fast enough, problem, also, because of that, these engines like good clean oil, use a high quality oil and filters, change about 7500 miles and she will thank you. now when you do get it running, run some good injector cleaner thru in, maybe some hot shot secret, My personal experience, I have a work truck with a 3126 over 100k, bear to start when its cold, I think it needs injectors, boss doesn't want to pay for it, my motor home has a C7 30k, fires right up.
Now your pretty far north, are your temps below 32f?, is your block heater working? a quick test is to plug it in then unplug it after about a minute and see if it draws a spark, your unplugging it under load and there should be little spark, or put a torpedo heater aimed at the oil pan for 45 min or so
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:46 AM   #12
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Two things. First of all you are fighting cold weather that will make your fuel gel next it will cause your oil to thicken that will put a drag on your engine.like the gentleman suggested earlier you need a block heater and also make sure your batteries are hooked up correctly because you are also fighting about 20:1 compression ratio.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:07 AM   #13
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Thank you all for the usefull and informative replies. I am awaiting a break in the weather so that I can methodically put your thoughts ans ideas into practise. I doubt i will be able to do anything for about a week as I have about 2 feet packed aroung the RV and it is snowing again!

As soon as i can I will post back the results.


Cheers

Dave
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:18 PM   #14
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Hi All,

Finally I'm back.The layers of ice and snow under the RV finally melted on Saturday. I was finally able to test voltages today. The voltage at the starter motor fluctuates wildly. So I removed all batteries out of the circuit and initially removed all connectors off the negative post on the starter motor. Upon further examination, I noticed one of the cables seems significantly damaged. I have attached a picture. This cable vanishes into a harness about 2 inches in diameter with a number of other cables presumably alternator etc.. This harness then travels toward the engine. I cannot access this from under the unit. I went into the bedroom, removed the air mattress and all air connectors and was able to access a small hatch which gives a bit of a view of the engine but no real access. It looks like the motorhome was fitted onto the completely wired frame! It may well be necessary to remove the entire bedframing to get better access. Any thoughts? I think this cable is the negative connector to the block, but I cannot confirm without being able to get there. Any thoughts on what exactly happened to the cable?

Cheers


Dave
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:45 PM   #15
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That looks like pretty severe damage alright!! Clearly the wire overheated and the individual strands were likely glowing from the way they appear oxidized and 'crispy' so that section will have to be replaced. You can likely test this as the root cause by replacing/bypassing this path with a very heavy cable such as #2 or #0 welding cable run directly from the negative of the engine starting battery pair to the negative post of the starter. Make absolutely sure this is the negative wire we are talking about here -- don't just assume it is because of the black insulating cover... With the temporary welding cable jumper in place, see if the engine will crank at speed and start. Once you have done this then the real work begins as you determine how to do a permanent repair.

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Old 04-02-2018, 07:30 AM   #16
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Hi Chuck,

Thanks.

This cable is not the one that goes directly to the negative post on the battery set, but it enters an approximately 2 inch diameter harness that makes its way toward the caterpillar engine. 2 problems here, firstly to ensure 100% that it is a negative cable, I would need to trace it to its destination on the engine which is currently completely inaccessible (I have opened a small hatch under the bed however it looks like I may have to remove the entire bed structure in the bedroom perhaps to reveal added access hatches to get to the harness destination???) and secondly one wonders, if this cable super heated, what further damage has occurred inside the harness!

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers


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Old 04-02-2018, 09:31 PM   #17
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Dave,

If it got that hot along its whole length there may indeed be collateral damage -- the only way to know for sure is inspect it along the entire run. You do need to determine if that is a ground lead or a voltage lead of some sort. You can measure the voltage relative to a known ground connection if you connect a small battery where the engine starting pair was originally connected. Use of a small battery will prevent any temp rise for a short duration test.

If that is a voltage lead and not a ground wire that is damaged, or if adjacent wiring is also melted, then things are perhaps even worse than they appear in your photo. You will most certainly need the help of a really skilled shop at that point.

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Old 04-03-2018, 07:15 AM   #18
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Thanks Chuck,

I am going to try to inspect ... as I said the really hard part is actually getting there. I will attach a voltmeter to the damaged section and hopefully using the ohm setting locate which cable it is at the engine side. Assuming it is a negative feed, my thought is that it is the ground to the block. Assuming the block side is rusted and oxidised I can clean that up prior to fitting a new cable.

I will advise but it may be a few days as we are due more snow.

Cheers


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Old 07-30-2018, 08:44 AM   #19
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Update as the saga continues!

We have nice warm weather now so I started working on my problem again. Firstly I was unable to access the engine block ground connector so I purchased #1 cable and directly connected new connections from starter neg to the block and chassis. This did not help. Secondly I went to a local auto repair shop and borrowed a battery load tester to double check the "new" batteries and found that the supposed 1000 CCA's were only 550 CCA's each!! So called the battery store and complained bitterly. They exchanged them and I load tested the new ones which showed just on 1000 CCA's each

Still slow crank. I then had a thought and asked my wife to crank it while I was underneath observing the starter. The starter became extremely hot within a couple of seconds while trying to crank. I now wonder if possibly I have a seized accessory maybe the alternator?

Any thoughts???


Cheers


Dave
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:08 AM   #20
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That starter needs to be rebuilt. If you were here in S. Maryland I would have you take it to a Mennonite shop. They do lots of big truck work around here.



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