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Old 08-11-2019, 12:00 PM   #21
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"You spoke of a switch on the dash. Do you know what it looks like? "
Sounds as if you're having fun, Bill. It will all come together with patience.
I have a 2000 Tourmaster with a parallel switch to which you alluded. It's a rocker style switch. While you hold it in, it connects your start battery to your house batteries for supplemental power. On my coach, it's located on a panel of rocker switches just above the ignition key and labelled 'AUX START'
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:21 PM   #22
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"and this is where it gets tricky. There are 4 batts in the aft starboard basement. They are on a slideout tray so easy to access, but nothing is labeled."
Bill, you could pull the negative (ground wire) off one set of batteries and see if the house electrical system is dead. If so, you know you've removed the ground from the house batteries, etc.
"Logically, one would think that you could tell which batt was a deep cyle and which batt is a starting batt by definition."
House batteries are often 6 volt - not always, but if you see 6 volt batteries, they're likely not starting batteries.
" For example, I have 3 starting lead acid batts and one deep cycle AGM. The 3 starting are Carquest 31S30 Commercial and Farm batts. The AGM Deep Cycle is a Carquest NG31 Platinum battery, which is an AGM deepcycle."
Google 'connecting different type batteries in series or parallel.' i.e. wet cel coupled with AGM. You'll find a ton of reasons why this is a bad idea.
"when I connected the charger/engine starter to 2 of the 31S30 batts, the generator almost started"
On mine, the genset starter is connected to the house batteries.
Hope all the above helps a little, Bill. Good luck!!
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:23 PM   #23
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"and this is where it gets tricky. There are 4 batts in the aft starboard basement. They are on a slideout tray so easy to access, but nothing is labeled."
Bill, you could pull the negative (ground wire) off one set of batteries and see if the house electrical system is dead. If so, you know you've removed the ground from the house batteries, etc.
"Logically, one would think that you could tell which batt was a deep cyle and which batt is a starting batt by definition."
House batteries are often 6 volt - not always, but if you see 6 volt batteries, they're likely not starting batteries.
" For example, I have 3 starting lead acid batts and one deep cycle AGM. The 3 starting are Carquest 31S30 Commercial and Farm batts. The AGM Deep Cycle is a Carquest NG31 Platinum battery, which is an AGM deepcycle."
Google 'connecting different type batteries in series or parallel.' You'll find a ton of reasons why this is a bad idea.
"when I connected the charger/engine starter to 2 of the 31S30 batts, the generator almost started"
On mine, the genset starter is connected to the house batteries.
Hope all the above helps a little, Bill. Good luck!!
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:30 PM   #24
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Bill, you're quite possibly going to have similar problems in future. Here are a couple of things I'd be inclined to do if I'd had your problems:
1. If you have wet cel batteries, have you checked the water level and made absolutely sure that the plates are covered?
On my 2000 Tourmaster, I have an isolation switch for the house batteries by the entrance stairs to the coach. I always leave it turned off when I'm absent. I also have an isolation switch for the chassis (starting batteries) located on the furthest aft compartment on the passenger side. I leave it turned off any time I'm in a position in which not having an engine starting battery would leave me stranded.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:27 AM   #25
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I am not familiar with your year coach but on my 2007 Tour Master the chassis and the house batteries are both in the basement compartment just aft of the curb-side rear wheels.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aakanksha5 View Post
I am not familiar with your year coach but on my 2007 Tour Master the chassis and the house batteries are both in the basement compartment just aft of the curb-side rear wheels.
Thank you! I found them. Got most everything corrected. Just trying to see if my batts will hold a charge or not.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:13 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
"You spoke of a switch on the dash. Do you know what it looks like? "
Sounds as if you're having fun, Bill. It will all come together with patience.
I have a 2000 Tourmaster with a parallel switch to which you alluded. It's a rocker style switch. While you hold it in, it connects your start battery to your house batteries for supplemental power. On my coach, it's located on a panel of rocker switches just above the ignition key and labelled 'AUX START'
[/B]

Thanks for the reply! Here is a photo of my switches. I do not have one that looks like a battery. So I have them labeled correctly? And what are the switches by the stairs, esp that red one. No matter what position it’s in it won’t illuminate.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Bill, you're quite possibly going to have similar problems in future. Here are a couple of things I'd be inclined to do if I'd had your problems:
1. If you have wet cel batteries, have you checked the water level and made absolutely sure that the plates are covered?
On my 2000 Tourmaster, I have an isolation switch for the house batteries by the entrance stairs to the coach. I always leave it turned off when I'm absent. I also have an isolation switch for the chassis (starting batteries) located on the furthest aft compartment on the passenger side. I leave it turned off any time I'm in a position in which not having an engine starting battery would leave me stranded.
It would not appear that I have wet cell batts. I cannot find anywhere to pour anything into. They have vent caps but you can't pour anything into them.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:14 AM   #29
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My switches are quite different from yours, Bill. I'd be surprised if you don't have an 'AUX START' parallel switch somewhere, but it doesn't appear to me to be on the panel you photographed. On the lower panel you submitted, I really don't know what that red switch is for. I have a separate mini panel that's labelled 'battery disconnect' in roughly the same position as the red switch on your panel.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:33 PM   #30
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Bill,


Normal lead acid batteries as used in vehicles are generically termed 'wet cells' because of the electrolyte being in a liquid state. Even 'maintenance free' batteries of this type are still wet cells. This term distinguishes batteries of this type from other chemistries such as nickel-cadmium, absorbed glass mat gelled electrolyte (AGM) and other more exotic batteries.


Post a picture of your batteries and if possible include a readable manufacturer name and model label...we can help more specifically from that. I am sure the 'caps' you see are for topping up the water lost from out-gassing when overcharging -- and when servicing lead acid batteries the only fluid you add is distilled water.


Let's see those batteries...


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Old 08-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #31
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Ok here are some pics of my batts and here is some data. As stated in an seller post on this thread my batt situation is a bit odd if not wrong. It doesn’t appear that I have a single deep cycle battery.

In the photo the batt on the right and the back batt are both Carquest 31S30 Farm and Truck batts, which are very good batts but they are starting. That’s interesting because those 2 batts are my house batts. I confirmed this.

The batt on the left and middle are my coach batts and are 2 different batts from each other. One is the same as the other 2 mentioned above and the far left one is a Carquest NG31 AGM batt. It is connected in parallel to a lead acid batt. That alone I think is problematic.

One photo is showing the cap off and as you can see there is no way to fill that batt.

If everything I say is true above I found the reason why my house batts won’t hold a charge for more than 2 hours, because they aren’t deep cycle!

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:04 PM   #32
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Bill,


Yes, your battery situation is real mess as you anticipated... The one AGM battery is a gelled electrolyte style -- AGM stands for absorbed glass mat construction, and you are correct that an AGM battery cannot have electrolyte added after manufacture. Further, its charge characteristics are somewhat different from flooded cell (or wet) lead acid batteries as the other three are. An AGM and a regular lead acid battery should not be charged/used in parallel for best performance. None of these 31S30 units are true deep cycle style (and both the house batteries need to be since your inverter runs on them.) At least they are 'spill proof' maintenance free styles which is why you can't add water to them either. Again, OK for starting batteries but not ideal for deep cycle.



Your engine start batteries should be robust enough to crank your big diesel engine, so those need to me heavy duty starting batteries -- the Carquest 31S30 has 950 CCA when fresh, and yours may have been compromised already by being allowed to go completely flat multiple times. Otherwise, those 31S30 batteries should work acceptably as engine start batteries...so select the best/newest two of the three you now have an use them for the engine start battery bank until you need to replace them with something you can trust and have a full use history on. Then get two real deep cycle batteries for your house batteries.



Even if you used the largest deep cycle batteries that would physically fit in your available space for house batteries, you will not ever achieve much inverter run time at full load. As most of these batteries in this size group are rated at about 115 Amp-hours at 20 hour rate, this means that a pair of these in parallel should amount to about a 230 amp-hour bank. If this is being used to power an inverter, you can't expect it to run things for very long, perhaps an hour or two at a 1000 watt output of the inverter.



My inverter in my 2007 Tour Master used four each golf cart batteries rated at 225 amp hours at a 20 hour rate, so for the series/parallel combination that yielded 450 amp hours at 12 volts capacity...so when my inverter was making enough 110 volts of AC at 1000 watts (half rated load...) it was consuming about 85 amps continuously from this battery bank. Since this is much higher than the 20 hour rate, the inverter would only run for about 4 hours or less at that continuous load before the generator would need to start.


Fortunately, the refrigerator does not pull a continuous 1000 watts, more like an intermittent load of about 700 watts averaging out to something equivalent to a steady 350 watts or less over time -- so a run time of approaching 8 hours or more was typical.


As you can see, inverters are a convenient way to get short duration AC without the noise of the generator. But don't expect to dry camp on just an inverter and battery bank without means of regular recharging either by running the generator daily or a very large number of solar panels to top off the 12 volts.


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Old 08-16-2019, 08:01 AM   #33
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You can take batteries into some auto parts stores and they can check and see if the are functioning correctly.
Batteries can get damaged internally and actually short and kill other batteries connected with them.
Even starting batteries, not deep cycle, can provide a lot of 12v service for small things like TV's and 12 volt lighting. It's when you get into any type of heating and cooling that kills them quick.
So if you take all those batteries in to have them checked and they are working normally you could still use them for low wattage items, just not the AC, fridge, electric heating, microwave, etc. You can watch TV or read a book by 12 volt light no problem. Charge your phone. Run your water pump. Just have to know your limitations.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:56 PM   #34
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Thanks for all of this info. As we thought before my batts very well may have been compromised. Fortunately, my starting batts were only drained one time. I know sometimes that’s all it takes. So I’ll have them checked.

As for the house batts, they very well may have been comprised too and I won’t know until they get checked out. The fact that I have house batts (installed by previous owner) that are actually starting batts would explain why with only running the fridge those batts couldn’t last but a few hours.

I’ve got my house batts picked out and I’ll be replacing them soon.

Thanks again for all the info and help!
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Old 07-08-2020, 08:16 PM   #35
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Bill, I just bought a 93 8391 TM. The batteries are a mess, can I get a couple pics of the wiring on top of them that you have hooked up. The ones you have on here are dark.
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