where the heck is my shore power inlet?

[packlet]

Hi all, new RV'er here, so please be gentle... 1997 (maybe 98?) SunSport 8325SEL. The generator comes on, but no A/C to outlets. Checked all fuses/breakers I could find. Can't find the ATS (looked under the bed by the converter) Maybe there is no transfer switch and the generator plugs into the shore power inlet? In the back driver-side storage area, there's a 30amp OUTLET, but I can't find the shore power INLET anywhere. Can anyone with similar rig post a picture of where your shore power inlet and/or ATS can be found? Thanx, Paul.

[Bike Dr]

Hello
If you find your inverter the plug should be very close to it! Depending on the size of your coach it will a 30 amp or 50 amp plug! This should help for what to look for!
Good luck!

LIFE IS GOOD!!!! LIVING IT!!!!

2005 41'4 Atrium SE CAT
2017 20' Diamond closed trailer
2014 Streetglide Special
2010 Mini Cooper

[packlet]

Thanx for the reply! However, i know this coach has no inverter (yet). I did find what i think USED TO BE the 30amp inlet, which was cut off, for some reason



So the investigation continues...

[Chuck v]

Packlet,


I don't know if you meant to post a link to your entire photostream, since it allows access to images of shipping labels and other items yo may want to keep less public...


It also did not seem to link directly to your first intended image of the cut cord, as this one requires a sign-in to access.


Chuck

[packlet]

thanx chuck. removed links. trying something else...


I wonder if the missing connector is meant to plug into the outlet?


This might make sense if the outlet IS the 120Vac output from the generator, and the missing plug was the 30a INPUT to the converter. Seems an odd way to wire things, but i guess it obviates the need for an ATS?

[Chuck v]

Maybe a copper thief stole your heavy gauge shore power cord...


Find the breaker panel in your rig, and use a meter to verify that the conductors of the cut-off cord do in fact go to that panel as intended. You might also see if the added outlet is also connected to those main feed busses...


Below is a diagram of typical 30 amp systems with the shore power cord circled in red. This diagram also shows the Transfer Switch (ATS) that select between shore power and generator sourced 120VAC into the power center breaker panel.


Chuck

[packlet]

Update: This coach (97 SunSport 8325SEL) has essentially a MANUAL transfer switch.



Using my multimeter, I was able to determine the cut off cable does indeed go to the main (input) breaker on the Magnetek 7345 converter, and the 30amp female jack was indeed live 120vac from the generator, so I replaced the male 30amp plug on the cut off cable, plugged it in and voila!


So things are working, but wondering about the advantages of an Automatic switch. Other than convenience, do they switch quickly enough that powered appliances don't even notice? That might make adding an ATS worthwhile, especially if/when I add solar and inverter to the mix.

Solar/inverter + more batteries would allow for full-time AC power, to be supplemented/recharged with shore/generator power when available, so it would be nice for AC power to not be interrupted during switching...

[Chuck v]

Packlet,


I'm surprised your rig does not have an ATS (which is typically under the bed in class A coaches, since that is adjacent/above the power entry bay...) The presence of that 30 amp outlet in the metal wiring box in the basement bay is a sure indicator of some prior owner's modification...as the unprotected white cable is not to code -- is that only two wires, where is the safety ground?!?


A "proper" ATS will not be fast enough to provide uninterrupted power, but it will be automatic and safe. If you add an inverter (with or without solar charging) it will also have its own transfer switch, since the inverter should not be asked to power ALL the 110 volt AC loads. Inverter power for AC loads will not be an instant change-over either. What are you concerned about in terms of transition time when AC voltage sources are switched?


For a system with shore power, generator power, and inverter power the system wiring is somewhat complex, and usually includes a sub panel of breakers as shown on the right side of this drawing for those AC loads that are designated for inverter backup. Solar simply adds another means of charging the batteries that are used to power the inverter...


Below is a typical wiring layout for inverter and a breaker sub-panel -- note the red circle shows that the other ATS and shore power/generator selection is upstream of this drawing.


Chuck

[packlet]

Interesting point about the apparent lack of ground. As I have found no ATS under the bed or anywhere else, I'm guessing the original one died, was removed, and someone decided to save money on this setup rather than replace it. I'll see about grounding that outlet, if it's not grounded inside the box (which I haven't opened)...


Appreciate the info!, Paul.

[packlet]

turns out the white feeder cable has 3 conductors and the middle pin and box is grounded back to the genset. So maybe OK? I haven't heard from GS support if this might have been original or not...

[Chuck v]

Very unlikely to be original, and that small wire does not appear to be adequate for 30 amps...it should be 10-gauge to meet code, and GS used only 10 gauge as seen in the attached excerpt of their documentation.

Is your generator smaller than 3600 watts???

Chuck

[packlet]

10 gauge, yes. Genny is 5500w max, I think. Same wiring is used all over under the bed into/out of the converter. IMO, it can't all be non-original, but who knows. This thing has seen some stuff. Anyways, I've figured out what I need for now. Thanx! Paul.

[Chuck v]

Paul,

Thanks for confirming the 10-gauge wire...at least we know it is a safe wire size to be there (original or not.) My drawing excerpt above shows what the factory supplied as a transfer switch and generator connection, but does not show the converter or possible inverter which would be downstream of this, but before the AC breaker panel(s).

The CONVERTER takes 110 volts AC input and makes high current 12 volts DC out of it to power the 12 volts circuits in the coach (lights, heater fans, etc) and also charge the "house/coach" batteries. These are typically 80 amp output units and made by Progressive Dynamics or similar vendors.

The INVERTER is an optional device in some coaches that takes very high current 12 volts DC directly from a substantial bank of batteries and turns it into 120 volt 60 Hz AC for use my small appliances, TVs, and perhaps a residential refrigerator. Inverters are rated in peak watts of AC capability (2000, 2500) and are often made by Xantrex or Magnum, etc.

If you provide a picture of what you are terming a 'converter' we can see if it is the normal 80 amp DC supply/charger or something else. A converter will only have one connection to the AC wiring of a coach...

Because an INVERTER can have a secondary transfer switch built into it you may find two connections to the coach AC wiring... Again pictures will help.

It is VERY UNLIKELY that your coach left the factory with that generator and no transfer switch whatsoever !!

Attached below is the full 30 amp coach standard wiring for a Gulf Stream RV, and you will note it does have an 80 amp CONVERTER but does not have any inverter...

Chuck

[packlet]

Magnetek 7345 converter/charger. NO inverter. I know the Magnetek is not great these days, but it seems to be working. I'm OK with what's there now that I have a working system... thanx.

[THenne1713]

The SHORE POWER CORD is the power INLET, you need to plug that into the 30a receptacle, and that means you do NOT have any ATS; cord normally stored in the same bay as the receptacle, which goes to the GEN which provides its power to that receptacle. If no power at 30a receptacle with GEN running, check the BREAKER on the GEN itself (beside and behind the START Switch on the GEN itself.) Good Luck

[packlet]

Yup, TH, figured all that out already. The only thing undetermined yet is whether that 'manaul transfer switch' was the factory setup (which Chuck thinks unlikely) or if it was bodged that way by previous owner when the original ATS went south... Thanx.

[PaperRn]

My '97 Winnebago was setup with a manual transfer of the plug between shore and gen power. The same 30 amp male plug you used to plug into the 30 amp recepticle to run house power is plugged into a 30 amp recepticle at the campground to provide house power.

An ATS could be hooked up to replace the 30 amp recepticle to provide the same function as the manual process but IMHO, isn't worth the extra cost or effort.

[Chuck v]

PaperRn has a good point: Was your Winnie set up factory or a modification made by you or an earlier owner?

A strong possibility for Packlet is that the "generator outlet" on his Gulf Stream was added to allow the RV to be an emergency generator for a house during a storm, etc.

This may have been concurrent with the factory ATS needing replacement, and the prior owner decided to use this manual transfer to allow the RV generator to also double as an emergency generator for other loads...such as a home without power to keep the freezer and refrigerator working during an outage.

Chuck

[THenne1713]

If you originally had an ATS, I would expect a metal can, empty or full disconnected behind Power Center; lacking the box, I would expect empty screw holes, or evidence that the ATS was mounted to some other metal box?