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Old 09-17-2016, 11:00 AM   #1
SlimTim
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Default Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

I have decided to install a Snowperformance water methanol injection kit on my 2010 Supernova 6400. The primary reason I am doing this is to lower EGT when pulling long hills, but there is also a HP increase as well. I installed an EGT thermocouple in early spring so I would have a better understanding on what was happening with the VT365. On my first trip from Oregon to Idaho my EGT on long hills was exceeding 1300deg F. I had done some research and found collaborating information stating prolonged EGT at or above 1300deg was not good for the engine. And running this high of EGT would damage the turbo and other engine components. Because of this I started backing off the throttle when my EGT temp reached 1250deg, but this has a direct effect to your speed.
The Snowperformance kit I purchased is for the Ford 6.0 and is called the MPG-MAX. It looks at turbo boost pressure and EGT to calculate a ramp in/up curve. Snowperformance claims a 200 -300deg EGT decrease and up to a 65 HP increase. You can either purchase the water methanol mix from Snowperformance. Or you can use low temp windshield washing fluid as it is approx.. 70% water and 20% methanol. If you want more information on how water injection works, snowperformance.net has a bunch of information.
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:35 PM   #2
rld63
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

How did the install go?

Did you notice any performance gains or lower EGT?

Thanks,

Roy.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:22 AM   #3
SlimTim
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

Hello Roy,

I am still working on the installation and I hope to have it completed this weekend. So far the hardest part has been deciding were to locate the water/methanol tank and valves. I did not want to install them in one of the compartments so I decided to locate them next to the leveling jack motor/pump system - my unit has hydroelectric leveling jacks. This required me to build a bracket that the tank and valves would sit on. I will take some photos and post them this weekend.

One thing I did find when I was installing the water/methanol injectors in the air intake was a crack in the charge air inlet hose. This is the hose that connects the charge air cooler to the VT365 intake manifold. The hose had a crack on both the inside and outside of the hose so I may have been loosing some of my boost pressure. This would cause high EGT so I am glad I found this issue. The Snow Performance water/methanol kit will display turbo boost pressure so it will be interesting to see what type of boost this engine/turbo putts out.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

I got the water/methanol system totally installed and working this weekend. Unfortunately I don't have a hill big enough or long enough around my house to see what affect it has on the EGT's. However on the short hills I do have around my house it does seem to have more power. One nice feature about the MPG_MAX is I can see the turbo boost pressure. Just as an FYI, on a short hill with a good amount of throttle the turbo boost pressure gets up to 25psi. At slow idle the boost pressure is around .5 or .6 psi. Boost pressure is not as critical as oil pressure or water temp but it is a good indicator on how the engine is running. I have posted a couple of photos below of the system and I will post some more in the next couple of days.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:04 PM   #5
SlimTim
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Injection Pump and Valves.jpg (33.8 KB, 1537 views)
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:08 PM   #6
SlimTim
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

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File Type: jpg Tank and valve mounting location.jpg (33.7 KB, 1537 views)
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

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File Type: jpg Primary and Secondary Injectors .jpg (33.6 KB, 1536 views)
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

I took the RV out today and drove up the largest longest hill around my house. With approx. 40% water 60% methanol solution I am using the power increase seems negligible. However the reduction in EGT was about 200 to 300 deg. Because I was primarily looking for a reduction in EGT I think this was still a good addition. But a noticeable HP increase would have been good.
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Old 12-02-2016, 04:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

Great pictures and install job.
Now that I live in the Phoenix area, I have to climb steep hills to get out of the valley heading North and East. I am looking for ways to keep the EGT down and add power.
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:27 PM   #10
SlimTim
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

Roy,

I think the water/methanol injection is a good starting point. I am still going to search for more power but with more power comes more heat so the water injection is a good thing. Its just to bad the VT365 did not use the same ECM and electronics as the Ford 6.0. It would be nice to have all the same engine programmers available to us as the Ford people have.

FYI - I am going to look at propane injection next. At least with an rv you can just pull the propane off your propane tank.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:33 PM   #11
rld63
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

Propane injections sounds interesting.

Do you have a TS or DiabloSport on your motor now?

I have a TS module but I think it is not working. I have it disconnected right now because it was throwing a check engine light. I was on the road when this happened so I just disconnected it because I did not have the scanner with me.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:39 AM   #12
SlimTim
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

Roy,

I have the MP8 on my 6400. It also has the in cab variable adjustment so you can go from 0 to 100% gain. What I have noticed is this system primarily affects off the line acceleration. I can set the unit at 0% gain and then as I pull away from a stop light adjust it up to 100% gain. When I do this I can feel the engine pick up power improving my acceleration. However when climbing long grades I can adjust the gain from 100% to 0% and back again and it has little to no affect. I am just guessing on this but I think this is probably because at or near full load on the engine the fuel rail pressure is at or near 100%. Because of this devices like the MP8 or Diablo have little effect on increasing this pressure - am just guessing on this and I could be wrong.

I did some research last night and I am going to try propane injection next. It is proven to increase power up to and exceeding 100hp on modern diesels such as the VT365. I don't think I will put 100hp into the stock vt365, but I may go for 30 or 50. The good thing about installing this on an RV is that we already have a large supply of propane.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:52 PM   #13
SlimTim
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

I took my 6400 out last weekend and I may need to retract my earlier comment about negligible power increase. One of the hills on the way home is steep and is a good duration for how steep it is. With probably 100 gal of water onboard, 3/4 tank of fuel, nearly a full tank of propane we never dropped below 55mph. I will be taking the 6400 on a longer trip in the next couple of weeks that includes some mountain passes (long with steep grades). I will post an update after the trip.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

I took the Supernova out again last weekend and had a whoops with the water methanol injection. The Supernova was running good and I had just got done passing some trucks when all of a sudden I heard a load whooshing noise. I instantly started to think of all the items that could make that much noise and sounded like an air hose when the end blows off. The load noise was also accompanied by a sudden loss of power and shortly thereafter my exhaust gas temps went sky high - glad I had the EGT gauge installed. With the noise and all the symptoms I came to the conclusion the charge air hose going from the charge air cooler to the intake manifold had ruptured. I slowly drove to the nearest off ramp, I say slowly because every time I would get on the throttle the EGT would go to high. Once off the highway I lifted the hood, and lets just say I was partly correct. The charge air hose was not ruptured, however one of the water methanol injector ports had blown out of the charge air hose. Prior to this happening I would have said there is now way this could ever happen. The way the ports are designed I still have a hard time believing it happened. Anyways 15 to 30 minutes later I hade the port reinstalled in the hose with an ample amount of safety wire wrapped around the charge air hose and ports to keep it from blowing out again. The Supernova ran terrific again after the fix and off I went again. I think the safety wire is a good fix but I will need to make it look a little better than my roadside fix.

To sum it up if anybody decides to put a water methanol system on their Supernova. You may want to install the nozzle holders different than I did, or put some safety wire around the hose/ports to keep the ports from blowing out.
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Supernova VT365 Water Methanol Injection

I took the Supernova on a trip this past holiday weekend, and I must say I enjoy driving my 6400. The trip was a good 600 miles round trip and I had one large pass to go over. I had about 50gal of freshwater onboard and was pulling a 14' enclosed trailer that was lightly loaded. This is the first true mountain pass I have gone over since installing the Water Methanol injection and I would say it gave me another 5mph or more going over the pass. I was using the cold weather washer fluid (approx. 70% water / 30% methanol) in the system. This seems like a fluid to use as it definitely helps keep the EGT down and gives you a bit more power. If you run a 51% water / 49% methanol mix apparently you get more hp, but I am not sure I want to go through the effort of mixing some up. Also it's hard to beat the washer fluid at under $2.00 a gal vs. the 51/49 mix at around $5.00 a gal.

I also discovered the EGT at the exhaust manifold runs colder than the EGT at the turbo inlet. At first I thought one of the gauges was faulty but after doing some research it appears this is normal. Apparently it has something to do with the exhaust backpressure and subsequent reduction in velocity as the exhaust is entering the turbo. It may also have something to do with a constant flow of exhaust at the turbo vs. a pulse at the manifold. At full load my manifold EGT is approx. 1000 deg, and the turbo inlet is around 1200 to 1250 deg. At idle the two gauges are within 20-30 deg of each other. So if anybody decides to install an EGT gauge I would recommend installing the sensor/probe in the "Y" pipe just prior to the turbo vs. the exhaust manifold.
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Old 03-31-2021, 02:35 PM   #16
pwerwagn
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Default

Hey SlimTim!

Are you still running water/meth on your SN? How’s it working after a few years?

Jeff
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