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Old 03-28-2023, 10:07 AM   #1
Chuckles
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Default Phantom Current Drain

Hi everyone,

I have a 2001 GS Ultra model W6253T with a phantom current drain problem. I believe it's in the battery isolation system which consists of a big toggle switch, a large circuit breaker, a smaller circuit breaker and a 3-pin solenoid/relay underneath the plate that the other 3 components are mounted on.

I believe a 3 pin relay requires continuous power to stay closed for charging. I could figure this out if I had a schematic for the system but I'm piecing it together using a VOM.

Of course almost all the wires and cables are red since it's all circuitry on the +12V side. That doesn't help but I have identified all the cables except one.

The current I see using my Victron SmartShunt is 0.81A from the coach battery with all other DC Device turned off or disconnected. That's a lot !

Does anyone out there have a schematic for this old system ? I would really appreciate a copy... it's not in the manual that came with it.

Chuck
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Old 04-03-2023, 01:09 AM   #2
THenne1713
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Easiest way to find aphantom load is start pulling fuses. You sounded like you were describing my Conquest 6266, and if similar, the solenoid is the EMERGENCY START, (BOOST) and YES, requires CONTINUOUS DUTY RATED. The CHARGE solenoid activated by IGN=ON is under hood, on firewall, forward o driver on Ford chassis. YES, solenoids do go bad, CAN stick closed, or controls switch go bad/ SHORT/ OPEN, or they can CLUNK, but NOT connect. re: Load, what about CARGO BAY LIGHTS, or LP ALARM, OR LP SOLENOID (if equipped?)
?
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Old 04-03-2023, 01:11 AM   #3
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re: diagram, check/ search my FILES under IRV2 website?
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Old 04-05-2023, 10:12 AM   #4
Chuckles
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Default Phantom Current Drain

Quote:
Originally Posted by THenne1713 View Post
Easiest way to find aphantom load is start pulling fuses. You sounded like you were describing my Conquest 6266, and if similar, the solenoid is the EMERGENCY START, (BOOST) and YES, requires CONTINUOUS DUTY RATED. The CHARGE solenoid activated by IGN=ON is under hood, on firewall, forward o driver on Ford chassis. YES, solenoids do go bad, CAN stick closed, or controls switch go bad/ SHORT/ OPEN, or they can CLUNK, but NOT connect. re: Load, what about CARGO BAY LIGHTS, or LP ALARM, OR LP SOLENOID (if equipped?)
?
Thanks, but I pulled all fuses last year with no luck. I replaced the solenoid/relay underneath the stairwell and it works, tested that by the using Emergency Start switch and hearing the loud click. I had to buy a new AGM battery and installed it yesterday and topped it off. When I disconnected AC Power, I still read 0.66A current drain with everything off. I found out from an RV buddy that there's a 5-min delay or more when starting the engine before that same relay kicks in to charge the coach battery while driving. This is done to make sure starter battery and alternator are "warmed up" before adding the other battery.

I'm gonna check the drain again after I make sure everything (propane detector, TV (I thinks it's AC though), etc. etc. Thanks for reading my post. We'll see what I read after I verify everything is off again. BTW, the drain reading is accurate since I'm using the Victron SmartShunt.

Chuck
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Old 04-05-2023, 11:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
Thanks, but I pulled all fuses last year with no luck. I replaced the solenoid/relay underneath the stairwell and it works, tested that by the using Emergency Start switch and hearing the loud click. I had to buy a new AGM battery and installed it yesterday and topped it off. When I disconnected AC Power, I still read 0.66A current drain with everything off. I found out from an RV buddy that there's a 5-min delay or more when starting the engine before that same relay kicks in to charge the coach battery while driving. This is done to make sure starter battery and alternator are "warmed up" before adding the other battery.

I'm gonna check the drain again after I make sure everything (propane detector, TV (I thinks it's AC though), etc. etc. Thanks for reading my post. We'll see what I read after I verify everything is off again. BTW, the drain reading is accurate since I'm using the Victron SmartShunt.

Chuck
re: <<found out from an RV buddy that there's a 5-min delay or more when starting the engine before that same relay kicks in to charge the coach battery while driving. This is done to make sure starter battery and alternator are "warmed up" before adding the other battery.>>

THIS Is true ONLY in (some systems) that use a BIM w/ TIME DELAY RELAY; My 2000 Conquest has no BIM, just IGN control of CHARGE solenoid and Manual switch for BOOST. The time delay is required for large, multi-battery class-A, where that surge voltage dip can cause SOLENOID CHATTER.

and the SOLENOID CLUNK is NOT a test if you are not monitoring voltage/ change w/ CLUNK, because they can CLUNK< but NOT connect.

and (some steps) will have a LIGHT below step that maybe ON, that you do NOT notice in daylight? Good Luck.
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Old 04-05-2023, 01:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THenne1713 View Post
re: <<found out from an RV buddy that there's a 5-min delay or more when starting the engine before that same relay kicks in to charge the coach battery while driving. This is done to make sure starter battery and alternator are "warmed up" before adding the other battery.>>

THIS Is true ONLY in (some systems) that use a BIM w/ TIME DELAY RELAY; My 2000 Conquest has no BIM, just IGN control of CHARGE solenoid and Manual switch for BOOST. The time delay is required for large, multi-battery class-A, where that surge voltage dip can cause SOLENOID CHATTER.

and the SOLENOID CLUNK is NOT a test if you are not monitoring voltage/ change w/ CLUNK, because they can CLUNK< but NOT connect.

and (some steps) will have a LIGHT below step that maybe ON, that you do NOT notice in daylight? Good Luck.
Thanks, but I am measuring voltage/current at all times with the SmartShunt so I know the relay is being driven properly by the Emergency Start switch, before I replaced relay there wasn't even a clunk noise. This RV definitely has a delay circuit when switching said relay from the ignition side. I proved this by hearing the relay enabled after several mins of engine running, also saw voltage rise when the alternator kicked in.

I found the phantom drain, it was the 12V to the fridge is always draining 0.52A which seems awful high but I can't any verifying specs for the fridge in the operator's manual. I had measured it last year but forgot it was that high, had to look back in my records.

So I'll have to pop the fuse to eliminate this drain. Of course this type of drain isn't a problem when in storage with the big isolation switch in Off position.

The other big part of the "phantom" drain was that the Emerg Start switch had been left on for 2 years (powering the coil in the relay) and I had no idea what it was for. The switch has a light to warn it's on but it had burned out sometime ago ! The guy I bought it from 2 years ago said just don't touch that switch. Not great advice.

Regards,
Chuck
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Old 04-05-2023, 01:56 PM   #7
Chuck v
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Chuckles,


Many disconnect relays are both continuous duty, and have mechanical latching such that they do not draw any power in either position, whereas the 'emergency start' feature uses a continuous duty solenoid driven by the IRD control module. Below is a DC primary power wiring diagram for the Tour Master coach line...


The Intellitec latching relay used on my coach has no drain when either ON or OFF, and you can see how this works in the PDF manual attached...but the IRD solenoid that allows the engine to charge the house batteries (and does the 'emergency start" interconnect) is not mechanically latching.


Chuck (another one...)
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Old 04-05-2023, 02:13 PM   #8
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Yeah, I do know about latching relays, they have two control terminals so they can reverse voltage to pins to open or close relay with just a short pulse of power. Mine is a single control terminal relay that requires continuous current to stay closed but that's not a problem since it's only used on the road where alternator supplies plenty of power.

Thanks,
Chuck
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