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Old 06-30-2021, 12:10 PM   #21
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Hi Vinnie!

I sent it to Shannon at FicmFixer in Texas. I had planned to send it to Ed at ficmrepair but since I’m close to Texas Shannon got it turned around and back to me super quick (shipped out Monday had it back wed!!). He also did it cheaper that his website said, I think 150$ with lifetime warranty. I talked to him for a long time about the vt365 version. He can test the FICM as well.

He said I had 4 bad modules. I had planned to send it to PHP to get the eco tune in it also but figured I would see what it did fixed. Made an improvement.

I can’t wait to see what the php orion does. I think the tuner combined with the 6th gear and differed gears in t he diff will make a big improvement. If not...a cummins swap will!
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Old 06-30-2021, 12:38 PM   #22
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Thanks.

I am very curious about the PHP tune. I noticed this in their instructions that seems odd to me:

"Once you have programmed the ECM with the modified calibration, you will be able to select from 7 different power levels. These levels range from 175 HP to 300 HP and can be selected and changed in just a matter of seconds"

Since our units are already rated at 300hp, I'm wondering if you gotten any feedback on the potential for power increase from PHP?
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Old 06-30-2021, 02:09 PM   #23
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Been following this and had some time to do some calculations, so thought I'd share some thoughts.

Found a pretty good RPM vs MPH calculator at the Spicer website that looks pretty accurate with what I actually get going down the road. You can change the ring and piñon gear ratio, tire size (255 70/22.5 is 36.6 inches), engine RPM, and transmission gear ratio to get a calculated MPH. The link is:https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...rpm-calculator

I've attached the spec sheet for the Allison 2500MH transmission we have in our rigs that I found on the Allison website. From it, you can get the transmission gear ratios.

I am very curious to know the results that anyone gets when/if they do get their 6th gear activated. When I had my engine rebuilt and bulletproofed, I also had them swap out the 5.29 ring and piñon for a 4.88 ring and piñon gear ratio. I run about 2100-2200 RPM on the highway which is 62-65 MPH. Using the calculator, the 6th gear (0.64) would drop those RPMs to about 1850 at 64 MPH, that's attractive for fuel mileage and lowering the noise. It's sluggish off the line, but does ok once you get into the higher RPM power band.

Appreciate your thoughts, keep 'em coming. Thanks.
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Old 06-30-2021, 02:12 PM   #24
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So I’ve talked to Bill quite a bit about it. The instructions are mainly for the 444 engine in school busses.

The FICM portion of the tuner will be similar to the eco, atlas 40 and atlas 80 (maybe the Hercules 100 as well). You can do a LOT of reading on those tunes on trucks. He can reflash your FICM for 150$ without needing the tuner. The eco alone will remove the lag. And 40 should be fine for our setups if you remove the stock muffler.

The ECM portion he was still working on last time I talked to him.

We also talked about using the ecm tune to control the vgt for use as an exhaust brake. The power from the ecm tune doesn’t stack with the FICM 1:1, meaning a 40hp FICM Tune stacked with a 40hp ecm isn’t 80, it’s more like 60.

I’m hoping for the ecm and FICM To add 40-60 hp, then the exh brake control and ability to delete the egr valve.
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Old 06-30-2021, 02:18 PM   #25
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Makes sense. Thanks, Jeff.
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Old 06-30-2021, 02:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTC_R View Post
Been following this and had some time to do some calculations, so thought I'd share some thoughts.

Found a pretty good RPM vs MPH calculator at the Spicer website that looks pretty accurate with what I actually get going down the road. You can change the ring and piñon gear ratio, tire size (255 70/22.5 is 36.6 inches), engine RPM, and transmission gear ratio to get a calculated MPH. The link is:https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...rpm-calculator

I've attached the spec sheet for the Allison 2500MH transmission we have in our rigs that I found on the Allison website. From it, you can get the transmission gear ratios.

I am very curious to know the results that anyone gets when/if they do get their 6th gear activated. When I had my engine rebuilt and bulletproofed, I also had them swap out the 5.29 ring and piñon for a 4.88 ring and piñon gear ratio. I run about 2100-2200 RPM on the highway which is 62-65 MPH. Using the calculator, the 6th gear (0.64) would drop those RPMs to about 1850 at 64 MPH, that's attractive for fuel mileage and lowering the noise. It's sluggish off the line, but does ok once you get into the higher RPM power band.

Appreciate your thoughts, keep 'em coming. Thanks.
If you go to grimmjeeper.com you can use a calculator that allows you to put 2 sets of inputs side by side and see the changes easily. I do a lot of rock crawling and desert racing so it’s a pretty useful tool.

My setup currently is 2350 at 65 according to the tach and scangage and just shy of 2600 at 70. My thoughts are 6th gear enable with 5.57 would drop my 70mph to 2350, and allow me a “taller” gear to downshift into (5th) for hills than the current 1:1 (4th) with 5.29’s.
Right now I’m downshifting from 5-4 at 62 mph which puts me at ~3000. If I had the 5.57, 5th at 70 would be 27-2800. My other thought is 6.17 with 6th which would be similar overall to what I have now with an extra gear thrown in.

As far as noise, killing the fan makes a HUGE difference. I need a bigger pusher fan to control the heat a little more than the small one I am running, and I think the big fan would rarely be needed. I might clean the radiator as well.

The other interesting thing is IAT with the fan on vs off. It stays 100-125 fan on WOT and fan off it will rise into the 170’s due to less air thru the IC, which increases EGT 50-100*.

Jeff
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:45 AM   #27
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Thought Id update this a bit..

So we did a 4260 mile trip this summer, and it runs much better now. It wasn't extraordinarily happy up some of the longer hills in the montana area with 75-80mph speed limits, but it did MUCH better on the steeper hills in the colorado area (i.e, the million dollar highway coming out of ouray, I was able to run the speed limit and actually accelerate up hills after a corner, with the Jeep unhooked).

We towed the 4door JKU everywhere. Scaled between 28 and 30Klbs on avg depending on fuel and water. Our avg over the 4300 miles was 7.6mpg. About the only issue I had was the drivers tank not wanting to fill the passenger tank quick enough for my liking, but no huge deal.

I also had an issue ~200 miles into the trip with the ICP sensor failing again. Having had it happen before, I knew what it likely was. It died on me in eastern NM at Russels truck stop, but restarted no problem. I left and it died 2 more times before getting on I40 again. Once on I40, it was fine until we got into traffic in amarillo, then it would die everytime we came to an idle. I figured out that if I kept TPS above like 10% and rode the brakes a bit in traffic, it was ok. Once parked, I realized it was likely the ICP again, so I unplugged it and it was fine the rest of the trip. The ECU defaults to a table for ICP values, so it doesnt hurt anything to have it unplugged. The only draw back was, when you unplug it, the TS MP-8 no longer functions so I had to do the whole trip without the MP8.

The cab sound deadening made a world of difference. I did the noico 80mil on as much of the firewall as i could, the doghouse, and the floor. Then I put either the 150 mil or the 300 mil foam over all of it. Was definitely worth the time.

After we got back, I took the electric pusher fan off. I think it was actually hurting more than it was helping. After removing it, I don't have to turn on the engine driven fan much at all. I took a ~250 mile trip with my flatbed trailer with my 2005 Cummins on it, before fuel and water I was 35,360 combined. So full I was approaching 37K (I know, way over GCW). It handled it good. The changes I made have allowed it to top hills at this weight at the same mph it was topping hills all stock. All of the little mods have added up to help so far. Max EGT, engine temp, etc with the fan on is never an issue. Even if you let it get up to ~215*ECT, it will bring it back down to 190 or less in about 1 minute. EOT has never exceeded 225*, well within internationals defuel limits.

The Orion tuner is my next move. I hope to have a report on that sometime in October.

I am also talking with a different fan clutch company about a 2 speed fan that is always on ~20%, and then you can turn it on to 100%. I think the 20% fan speed would be enough to RARELY ever need the fan on 100%. The issue with never turning the fan on (in our 100* weather anyways), is that the trans temp and IAT start to get a little high. I think just a little air flow would help those out a bunch. Seeing as how much gain I have noticed with the fan off, I think its worth the hassle of pursuing this. I do like having the mechanical fan for downhill however. It will slow the RV down an extra ~5-10mph depending on RPM with the fan on vs off, which is nice.

Just a random tid-bit of info: source engineering has published data of cooling fan hp draw, but not for the VT365. However, on the 6.7ISB they are claiming 71hp draw and on a C9 cat, 42.6. Based on the gains I have seen, I would venture to guess we are closer to that 71hp, especially when up around 3Krpm.

--Jeff
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Old 10-10-2021, 05:16 PM   #28
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Jeff,
Where did you order your Horton clutch fan? I was thinking of going to an electric fan to try to recover some HP but after you pointed out the mechanical fan helps slow the coach since there is no exhaust brake I think I’ll try your option.
Did you ever get 6th gear unlocked in your trans? I’ve heard both that you just have to find the right tech and that it’s impossible. Any info would be appreciated.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:42 PM   #29
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I actually got mine off eBay. I had heavily considered doing 2-3 Ford Taurus 2 speed fans (sounds like a bad idea, but Taurus fans move some serious air), but then stumbled on this clutch on eBay so I tried it. It’s not perfect but it’s Substantially better than the viscous one that was on mine. I wish the Horton was like 20% on when off.
https://kit-masters.com/ has different styles of clutches that I think would work better. It really seems like if the clutch pulled 20-30% when off, it would almost never have to cycle on.

I have not got the 6th gear unlock done yet, mostly because I don’t think mine will pull 6th gear. I’m waiting to see how much the Orion tuner adds.

Jeff
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Old 10-24-2021, 03:10 PM   #30
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Thanks for all the new info. Don't read here enough. I will certainly be reading more this winter as I get a knee replacement Nov 4th. But I want to go back racing next year and I'm pushing the envelope on weight. The electric 2 speed fan clutch sounds great. I've already been through 2 OEM fan clutches. Bullet proof oil cooler and stainless EGR, cat delete and Heads have been done. MP8 and the best care I can give her. Cheers all.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:49 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini John View Post
Thanks for all the new info. Don't read here enough. I will certainly be reading more this winter as I get a knee replacement Nov 4th. But I want to go back racing next year and I'm pushing the envelope on weight. The electric 2 speed fan clutch sounds great. I've already been through 2 OEM fan clutches. Bullet proof oil cooler and stainless EGR, cat delete and Heads have been done. MP8 and the best care I can give her. Cheers all.
Nice setup! Hope the knee replacement went well too! I think if Kit Masters had a fan that would do 2 speed, that would be the ticket. My horton is working good right now with the cooler weather, I towed the rock crawler last weekend and only had to turn the fan on once on a long hill (~32Klbs).

I havent talked to Kit masters, but I did get an email from a guy saying they could make something work. If you talk to them, let me know!

-Jeff
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Old 11-21-2021, 11:19 AM   #32
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Jeff - did your FICM failure cause the truck to die underway? We're stuck in Gallup since Friday night. Rig got progressively smokier from tail pipe and then engine got super rough and had to pull over. Doesn't want to start and if it does it idles terrible and dies.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:43 AM   #33
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Hi Vinnie! Sorry I didn’t see this sooner.

Mine did not cause it to die underway, but I’ve been around 6.0’s that have. That’s why I fixed mine ahead of time.

There’s an excellent 6.0 mechanic here in Albuquerque if you need any help.

I have had my ICP cause mine to die underway. You can unplug the ICP (passenger valve cover, towards the front). It will run without the ICP, and run normal.

Hope you got it fixed!

If you need any help send me a message. You can test the FICM with a voltmeter.
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Old 12-14-2021, 02:49 PM   #34
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Ended up having to do a quick winterization and leave the coach in Gallup.

No codes in computer but still no start. Seems like issue with high pressure oil system to me.

Shop is chasing bad lift pump (tandem pump on our units). These are on national backorder at International dealers and generally don't seem available used.

I think they are on the wrong track, though. They pulled the top off the filter housing and removed filter, then cranked the truck. Didn't see fuel so they think pump is bad.
According to International service manual, system is designed to stop fuel flow if filter is not properly installed and tightened - protective measure for injectors.

Do you have contact info for the mechanic in Albuquerque? I may end up having to get coach transported.
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Old 12-16-2021, 07:09 AM   #35
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Scratch that about the filter housing. I had the fuel flow out of sequence in my mind.
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Old 12-23-2021, 11:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Ended up having to do a quick winterization and leave the coach in Gallup.

No codes in computer but still no start. Seems like issue with high pressure oil system to me.

Shop is chasing bad lift pump (tandem pump on our units). These are on national backorder at International dealers and generally don't seem available used.

I think they are on the wrong track, though. They pulled the top off the filter housing and removed filter, then cranked the truck. Didn't see fuel so they think pump is bad.
According to International service manual, system is designed to stop fuel flow if filter is not properly installed and tightened - protective measure for injectors.

Do you have contact info for the mechanic in Albuquerque? I may end up having to get coach transported.
I put a fitting on the filter housing of mine to check fuel pressure. It will build pressure while cranking if its all good.

If they dont get it all ironed out let me know and I can put you in touch with a great 6.0 mechanic. Most 6.0 shops arent as versed with the VT as the 6.0 so their scan tools wont read them, but still better than a random mechanic.

Where is the 2nd lift pump at? I thought we only had the engine driven pump down by the bellhousing.
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Old 12-24-2021, 12:26 PM   #37
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There doesn't seem to be any fuel getting up to the filter housing at the moment even with cranking.

The engine driven pump is the only one but it is a combination pump for power steering and fuel lift. I've found one used one and had metal particles in it. We've put in a "critical outage" request to try and get one but no ETA yet. There doesn't seem to be a rebuild kit either. I'm tempted to just have them install an aftermarket electric pump.
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Old 01-20-2022, 11:47 AM   #38
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Any luck yet Vinnie?

I actually carry around a cheap spare inline electric fuel pump for this reason. It fits my rock crawler, my race truck, and I have fittings with it so I should be able to adapt it to my supernova and my other diesels. Decent insurance for a 75$ spare pump.
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Old 04-22-2022, 01:44 PM   #39
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Finally got some news today - NOT GOOD.

Turns out the lift pump was fine, they just didn't prime it correctly the first time around. These tandem pumps are still not available either from International nor the used market so a backup replacement is a good idea, as long as it can meet the spec. I had purchased an AirDog kit but they took a second look before installing it.

Worse news, when they started looking at it this week they found metal and coolant in the oil pan, so it looks like replacement engine time. So much for Bulletproof. Hopefully, the service contract will cover a big chunk of this.
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Old 07-27-2022, 07:46 AM   #40
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so 6th gear ? anyone get it unlocked yet ?��
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