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Old 10-11-2007, 04:00 PM   #1
zzrv
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Default ALL batteries dead!

I just returned Tuesday from a 2 week trip during which everything worked just fine. I parked in my driveway to unload with only the fridge running on propane and occasionally turning on lights. Today (2 days later) I went to move it to my parking pad and the chassis battery was completey dead. I had replaced it about a month ago. I know the coach batteries need replacing also and expected them to be low. However, they were all dead.

I believe there is a 'Battery Isolator' that should prevent the chassis battery from discharging when the coach batteries run down. Am I missing something?

Also, before I replaced the chassis battery, I had tried using the battery switch on the dash that is supposed to connect the coach batteries to the chassis for emergency starts. It did not work either.

Do I have a bad Isolator or do I just need to replace the coach batteries?

TIA.......Ron
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:03 PM   #2
RJ82much
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Ron,

With all your batteries dead (& no 12v to your fridge), I think I would roll a car up to the front of your MH, connect jumpers to the chassis (motor) battery, get a charge on it, and start the engine. The engine alternator will quickly charge that battery. AFTER a decent time of motor battery charging, I would depress that dash "battery" switch and hold it for a while. That will charge the house batteries.

I would also get perishibles out of the fridge unless I was certain I could get either 12 volts dc or 115 volts ac into the coach reliably.

If you have a generator, then start it & leave run for a decent time. If not, then keep using the MH engine alternator, with the switch depressed (got kids?). Perhaps slip something under the switch lever to hold it "on".

In the meantime, can you get a house extension cord out to the MH? 50amp-30amp "dogbone" adaptor, with 30amp - 20amp "duplex" plug adaptor will get ac power to MH to charge house batteries through internal converter.

Next, you need to find why all batteries are going dead. Did you leave power on hydraulic leveler system? Did you leave those little floor lights on? (My wife constantly turns them on without noticing). Did you leave the compartment light main switch on? Do you pull a toad? & leave it plugged in? (More on that if you did).

Sounds like you didn't want the coach dead, but you could always turn off the main disconnect for the chassis. That guarantees that all the computer modules are off. It will loose radio presets, but you just did with the dead battery anyway. BTW, I think that is what you mean by the battery isolator. I don't think the battery isolator (disconnect) will change state once the battery is dead. (Not sure if they are held open or closed, or merely center till operated either on or off).

Please answer with some of the equipment you do or don't have.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:03 AM   #3
zzrv
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Thanks Bob. Sorry for not explaining the situation more clearly. I have a habit of violating the K.I.S.S. rule.

The fridge was emptied and turned off. My toad was disconnected. I did discover the main compartment light switch was left on and there was one compartment light on. That is probably the cause of the coach batteries going dead.

I did jump the chassis battery with a 'hot shot' to get it going and ran the gen to recharge the house batteries. It is currently on the parking pad with it plugged in to 110.

My question is this: Should a coach light drain the chassis battery?

There is a battery isolator in the electric compartment which, I assume, should prevent this from happening.

P.S. This is a 2003 Ultra Supreme 33' class A on a F53 chassis.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:26 AM   #4
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Ron,

I don't have a good answer, but here's what I do have:

Your compartment light fixture should be a Bargman #30-93-113 containing a single #1141 bulb. The bulb is rated to draw 1.44 amps at 12.8 volts. If the compartment light was on for 2 days, you should expect to take roughly 75 amp-hours out of the house batteries.

You'd think this wasn't enough to have any effect? Well, maybe not so. You weren't charging your house batteries while driving. Perhaps there were more appliances on (lights, pumps, (got an inverter?), heater, fans, etc) while traveling which exhausted some of the battery amp-hour capacity before you got home.

You might want to test the specific gravity of the cells while you are checking that you're not low in water in the house batteries. I think the guage is fairly inexpensive. That will tell you for sure if there is a problem with the batteries.

As for the defective isolator,,, I can't answer it. The purpose of the IRD Isolator relay is to either isolate or cross-over the two battery systems. The isolator has a controll module, which you will have to search to find. I think I finally found mine in the engine compartment, not sure. The controll module (depending on model number) may also function to place charge on the "other" battery system once it's own system is up to charge. I'm not sure which way it works however, because that is determined by the IRD module, not Gulf Stream.

On either side of the isolator though, are the individual disconnects to totally isolate either/both batteries from their respective equipment. So, if there is something wrong with your isolator, you should counteract it by opening your engine disconnect, thus preventing any possible drain from battery system to battery.

Summary: careful not to leave any lights on in the future. Run generator while tearing down from camp stay. Also, start engine ahead of time. I also run generator & engine once home while getting electric from house out & plugged in. I thought that meant I was just anal about some things. Maybe not???
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:36 PM   #5
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Bob, here is a pic of the isolator relay in an electrical compartment. You notice it says 'Diesel' even though I have a gasser. Don't know if it is original or has been replaced.



There are pictures of both gasser and diesel isolators in the owners manual, and the connections are different. The diesel has an additional connection for the genset, which the gasser one does not have.

To quote from the owners manual:

Automotive 12-volt system

The vehicle's alternator provides power to charge both the automotive 12-volt battery and the coach 'house' batteries. An isolator rely system prevents the RV battery from draining the automotive battery.

The automotive battery provides power to start and run the vehicle's ignitions system and various automotive lights and accessories.

The alternator charges the RV battery that, in turn, powers all the appliances and equipment in the 'house' portion of the vehicle that use 12-volts. These include the furnace blower, refrigerator, water heater ignition, and the water pump. The RV battery is charged through the power converter whenever the vehicle is using a shoreline connection or when a generator is used. The chassis battery is only charged when the vehicle is running. End quote.

The first paragraph, The vehicle's alternator provides power to charge both the automotive 12-volt battery and the coach 'house' batteries. An isolator rely system prevents the RV battery from draining the automotive battery. tells me the 'house' batteries should have been fully charged from the ALTERNATOR after a 5 hour drive. Apparently, the isolator relay did not isolate the chassis battery after shutting off the vehicle.

Ron
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:07 PM   #6
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Bob, here's a link to the pdf for my isolator relay, which states that both chassis and aux batteries will be charged from either the alternator or external power source under certain conditions.

http://www.intellitec.com/pdfs/BATTERY_ ... 66.000.pdf
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:16 PM   #7
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Nice job Ron,

I went out to the link to Intellitec ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=I ... gle+Search ).

This model operates a little differently than I was under the impression, or from the model number included in my Sun Voyager.

I was under the impression that they 2 banks of batteries should never be paralleled for any period of time. The house batteries are completely different styles than the engine battery. Charging power can therefore be unpredictable, and possibly unhealthy for the battery life.

Maybe you've just proven that to be true? I was under the impression that the isolator actually switched low batteries over only when the original batteries become fully charged, & then isolate as soon as possible.

I think you are back to doing a thorough analysis on your batteries. Perhaps Sears or WalMart will do that for you. They have carts with testers (how good are they though?) and surely the means to test the specific gravity. You have me convinced that something isn't right. I will be traveling where no wireless follows for the next week & day or so, so I won't be participating for a while. Look forward to reading updates when I return.
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:34 PM   #8
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Bob, first of all, have a good and safe trip.

I called Intellitec tech support (very helpful and knowledgeable about their products) and was told that the diesel in a gasser should be ok. The main difference is the isolator relay being capable of handling up to 800 amps for a diesel versus 100 amps continuous and 500 amps for 30 seconds for a gasser. He thinks the module is bad, which he thinks was caused by a short in the isolator relay itself. Will check it out and let you know what I find.

Again, have a good trip.

Ron
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:44 PM   #9
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First, let me say my B.I.R.D was bad. (Battery Isolator Relay Delay). As soon as I turned on the coach batery disconnect, the relay would 'pick', causing the chassis baterry to be connected to the coach batts all the time. Hence, when the coach batteries died, they took the chassis battery with it.

Secondly, the tech support folks at Intellitec, who make the BIRD, are extremely helpful and knowledgeable. (GS could learn alot from them)
According to them, the Diesel BIRD should have been coupled with the appropriate isolator relay. However, it had the gasser relay (different resistance coil as well as lighter duty contacts) with the diesel BIRD.

As close as I can determine, the 'Diesel' BIRD was put in my coach at the factory. I called the dealer from which the motorhome was originally purchased and who did all the service on it, and they have no record of replacing the BIRD in my mh.

I installed the new BIRD for a gasser from RVparts.com and it seems to be working correctly. I also have to replace my coach batteries. They no longer hold a charge very long.

Ron
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