2008 Gulf Steam Tour Master - Right choice?

[wdawsonsr]

Rick & David, thanks for the replies.

To Rick: Paradise closed their doors last Nov. I was notified by Lance Larson the Service Mgr. Manny was their super tech. He was knowledgable & fast. As I look back, starting about July the service was starting to slip. Too much work & not enough manpower. It's too bad they had to close.

Yes the slide has an awning. One annoying issue in regards to the awning is that being so long there is no way it can be kept taut. Originally in moderate winds the rear part of the awinging would flap, annoyingly loud. The last time the awning was re-installed the front is loose. It's just the way the end springs are tensioned. Even with the awning it doesn't take much of a breeze to drive rain under the awning & collect on the slide roof. Once the ceiling frame sagged it was impossible for the wiper seal to squeegee all of the water from the roof as the slide retracted. While Paradise/Gulf Stream were discussing the issue for months, I got to the point that I would the inflate the air bags & retract the leveling jacks. This gives the coach a port list. This got most of the water out but not all of it. Then before moving we would roll up beach towels & place them at each end of slide roof. For me this issue is inexcuseable. Having spent 25 yrs designing high vacuum chamber systems it isn't rocket science trying to keep water out.

Another major issue has been the Power Gear electric Jacks. I've lost count, but I think we have had 6 jack motors replaced. Two have been at the same position. They tell me all is well now but we have not had the coach in use enough to know for sure. I know I hold my breath everytime I extend or retract them. I like the action of the jacks over the hydraulic jacks I've had in the past. Time will tell on this one. Early on I had weighed each wheel when we were fully loaded so I would know how we were balanced. As expected, we are a little heavier on the big slide side but the weight difference is reasonable. The jacks are rated for 12000# & my heaviest wheel is 9800#.

David, how is your coach when driving in cold weather? We were told that ours has the Artic Package, whatever that is. Anything less than 45? outside air temperature is uncomfortable to downright cold. Paradise added some additional sealing on the back side of the dash but when I look around the generator everything is wide open. At highway speeds this has got to have a severe cooling effect on cockpit area.

We are supposed to get the coach back today but when I talked to the tech late yesterday he was still waiting to hear from Jim Creech for instructions on wiper linkage adjustment. I told him I don't want it back until the wiper issue is resolved. It's now 10:30AM & I haven't heard anything so my guess is I'm not going to Portland today.

Safe travels guys,

Ed Dawson

[rdlamb]

Ed:
As far as cold weather, we wound up staying longer in Montana than we wanted, family urgency required it. Got down to -10. Snow, blowing, downright cold. Coach furnaces ran almost continually but kept the coach warm.
Left Montana in wind, funny how it always seems to be a head wind. The front end stayed warm. So, overall, our coach is doing well.
Left a post in the Hall of Fame, outlining where and what we have been through, but overall we are happy.
Did want to use Lance's and Manny's names, in case someone had a different opinion than me. Knew Paradise was not going to last, last Spring when we stopped by. Things looked bleak then.

[wdawsonsr]

Rick:
Your cold weather experiences are really good information. Did you have any extra heaters in the utility bay or water manifold bay? The coldest temps we have seen was 18? in Sun Valley last fall. I put a wireless thermometer in the water manifold bay which includes the water pump & inlet filter. It registered 42?. I talked to Jim Creech at Gulf Stream yesterday questioning him about why the front of the coach is so cold. He said he had no idea. I feel a negative is the plastic dash & front panels. I looked online & saw pictures of an '07 TM. I like the padded dash but the best part in my book is the overall layout. I personally do not like the '08 cockpit layout. Being a private pilot & ex-owner operator trucker, instrument scan is foremost when driving. A real bummer is the ignition key being on the lower left of the panel. Ala Freightliner COE trucks in bygone days. There it was convenient as you could stand on the ground & start or stop the engine if need be.

We go to Portland Monday to pickup our coach. It wasn't quite ready Friday early afternoon. They want to wash it before I pick it up. This is really a nice gesture. They did the same last time.

Jim Creech called me yesterday morning after having talked to the tech at Johnson RV about timing the wiper linkage. Jim was very positive & friendly. That's a first but I hope that any future factory contacts will be the same.

I really appreciate your's & David's responses. Very enlightening.

Thanks,
Ed

[rdlamb]

Ed:
I thought about it, but decided to just run the propane. Our coach has heater lines into the compartments, and I thought they would keep everything from freezing, which they did.
I bought a heat tape at Home Depot, along with tube water-line insulation. Taped the heat tape to a short length of hose, then covered it with the cheap insulation. Bought the kind that has a line of stickum that keeps the tube shut.
All in all, the GS coaches are much more happy going South in the winter and North in the summer.
Oh, running heaters, cooking on the stove, and having the water heater on electric, a tank (35 gal) of propane lasts just over a week.

[rdlamb]

By the way, thank you for keeping us up on your coach. Nice to know GS is still stepping up to the plate, albeit in their own time.

[David Bott]

UPDATE...

Ok, just got the coach back and now I need to get it ready for the trip.

On the way home I noticed that the fan that is under the coach, in the front, that is in front of something I thought was the A/C exchanger, was running when I had the heat on.

Now what I mean by ON, is that the dial that has the little icons for FEET/FRONT, FEET, FRONT/DEICE, and DEICE (OFF at the top) and then A/C items on the left. If it was in any position other that just FEET, the fan would come on. (Not sure why it would not come on for FEET only...but it did not.)

Now this is the fan UNDER the coach (Outside in front of the front axle) , not to be confused with the blower fan inside the dash which has it's own speed dial.

So, is this also the heater core and the fan is needed for something? I thought it was the A/C coils as I had only heard the fan cycle on and off on and off, on and off. This is the first time I have used the heat really, this is why this may be a strange question.

NOTE...I am asking for one of the things that was replaced was the Thermo Switch. This was replaced as the front end A/C stopped working and I was told it was the switch and they replaced it.

So, I guess the question is...what is that unit under the coach with the fan? As it is a radiator type unit that seems to run with both the heat and the A/C.

Thank you.

BTW...The slide was fixed, the window was replaced (with a differnt brand mind you as the other went out of busniess) and the dropped panels were secured and repainted. Now I can start to set up the coach for our trip.

[wdawsonsr]

I''m not sure what that fan is cooling. I hear what I believe is the same fan you are talking about. Mine runs all of the time. I haven't had the coach home long enough to check these things out. We think all of our troubles are over. Maybe I'll have some time to check things like this fan motor out. Good luck.
Ed

[David Bott]

Well it seems the condenser fan does run as the compressor runs in some heat modes as it need to take humidity out of the air in order to defrost windows. My fan however is so loud you can hear it even at highway speeds and it's high-pitch sound is very annoying for the people outside the coach.

UPDATE...

So we got the coach back and I can say again, their are service centers that one should not go to. And the fact that Gulf Stream still supports the center is kind of amazing. Twice now I have had to bring our coach to our local area service center, and both times how the work is sub, sub, par. In this case they replaced a window and we had 3 missing screws from the frame. They Were to de-winterize the coach...yet we found that when we turn on the hot water tap we had pink anti-freeze come out. They needed to repaint and reposition a panel...the paint color is gray and not silver. It just burns me up.

Yet if I travel to Dick Gores RV in Jacksonville, I have NEVER received bad work to the extent of them showing me the repairs and also showing me other items they may have noticed and fixed at N/C.

In any case, we are set to head out on Monday and hopping this time for an un-eventful trip which we have yet to have.

Take care, keep safe all.

[David Bott]

Hey all...For those not following our travel blog, I wanted to give an update...

Not having the best time I am sorry to say as we headed out for the first time this year. On our master slide at the top front inside it is digging into the metal when it expands out and meets the outside wall. When looked into, we found their was more of a problem then we had thought. Seeing it requires the slide out to be removed, yes, removed, our dealer really did not want mess with it. I can not blame them. So we were set to head north to Gulf Stream to fix that and also the rear slide. (Yes, from Jacksonville to the plant in IN.)

But wait, theirs more...We then have lost the power inverter AND the generator in the coach and not at the say time...a day apart! Get this...The authorized repair center for the inverter is in Orlando, we were in Jacksonville. So we left at 6AM to and arrived a 8:45. Ready...They Did Not Have The Part Needed! Well then we got ready to head out and found the generator was only putting out 4 volts. (vs 120v). So, we were lucky and PowerTech company was close by! So we called and....Ready...They Did Not Do Service On Fridays!

So we choose to start heading north vs spending the weekend in Orlando. As mentioned we are on the way to Gulf Stream in Nappanee, Indiana where the coach was built. At the Gulf Stream plant the inverter and generator can also be fixed, thus the reason we choose to head out and would stop at a max of 6 hours travel to plug in again. (The Tour Master has a 120v fridge and does not run on propane.)

All in all, here we go AGAIN! Or should we say STILL.

For those that were following our travels via our dash mounted web cam, sorry, but it does not work without the inverter when driving.

[wdawsonsr]

David:
We're still in the club with you. Our coach is in Fontanta, CA (L.A.). Last week I found our big slide is still dumping water inside as I retract the slide. I discovered the the slide is positioned 1/2" too far forward. The rear lock arm misses the plate it's supposed to bear against by 1/8". Water still puddles on the slide roof & is not getting wiped dry as the slide came in. Gulf Stream had a driver pick up our coach last Thursday & took it to J & L RV Repair in Fontana, CA. They are the factory repair center for the West Coast. I just talked to the owner a few minutes ago. He sounds promising & will keep me posted on their progress.

On the generator issue. We had to replace the control box & the voltage regulator. Fortunately Powertech has a service rep 45 miles from me & he came up & replaced the components. So far so good on that one. However, who knows what's next.

Good Luck,
Ed

[rdlamb]

Ed: Nice to know someone out there is willing to repair our coaches.

David: I'd not be as kind in my comments as you, had I suffered as you have. Perhaps it is time to review N.Y. lemon laws as applied to your case.

[David Bott]

We arrived at GS today and tomorrow someone is to come by for a chat and to get this started. I will report back of course as to what takes place.

[David Bott]

Hey All...Well, tomorrow, Wednesday, is the day for the fixed to start.

I must say, that GS really have stood behind their product. Brenda and I our pleased with our choice of the company we went with and of course the coach itself once the issues are resolved.

I will report back when all is done, we hope by Friday so we can head home for this Monday will be 4 weeks we have been gone.

Oh, it was a kick eating out tonight and seeing 2 girls raiding their horses down the sidewalk while talking on their cell phones. LOL

[David Bott]

Well... GS has been nice, however we are still here with issues not being resolved. We have power as the inverter and the generator have been repaired. However the slide is a differnt issue.

Not getting into it to much as it really frustrates me, right now for example it is in to have paint work done as it was scratched when it was being worked on. We have found the slide adjustment nuts and lock nuts not even tightened after the slide was worked on. And the list goes on.

At this time we have requested to bring the coach to another service center. (All this work was being done at the GS plant by the line and also then service techs.)

And the fun continues.

[rdlamb]

David; Are you saying that you no longer want the GS factory to work on your coach?

Do you have the full-wall slide?

Count me as one who is watching your posts, to see if GS is a company worthy of referrals.

[David Bott]

Hello...

I have a T-40B which is not the full wall slide version. It has 3 slides. (All of which use differnt type systems to move them. Standardizing would help greatly, but that is another story.)

Today, Tuesday, is the last day they will receive to resolve the issues with the main slide or at last find the issue and tell me how they will resolve it. They asked for one more chance to make it right.

They have stood behind the product. The issue I have however us when it is worked on and I am told it is all set and while showing me the coach I find more issues, that makes you question things.

We love the coach itself and have done a lot to it. That is one reason I am giving GS the chance to make it right. BUT WE HAVE BEEN HERE OVER A WEEK and have been FIXING this coach for a year. We understand their could be a long shake down on a new coach, but driving to service centers is not the best use of our money and at times leaving the rig for 2.5 months, well, is poor. These are peoples homes or vacations....their lives!

All in all we will see what will happen. We have not even updated our blog for some time as we have not felt much like writing.

[rdlamb]

Thank you David. Like you mentioned, we are full-timers. If our coach was tied up for days, weeks, months, on end for repairs we would have traded it a long time ago. This is just not acceptable.
Since you are at the factory, how about a trip to the President's office, and a face to face with him?

[wdawsonsr]

David:
Here is the latest on our T40F (full wall slide). It is at J&L RV Service in Fontana, CA (L.A.). It has been there for a little over a week now. I talked to the owner last Thursday. They had removed & replaced the slide-out roof material as well as the luan sheathing. The luan had water damage. No surprise there. They did find that the slide topper awning was not sealed where it mounted on the coach wall which allowed water to collect on the slide roof. However the major sag in the inside ceiling frame was not corrected properly on previous repairs in Portland. J&L will install a full length plate on the upper frame to eliminate the sag. This should allow the top wiper seal to remove all of the water as the slide retracts. As of last Thursday they were waiting for a new bulb seal for the inside flange of the slide. They still had not addressed the fact that the slide is offset 1/2" too far forward. They are supposed to be working on that this week. Gulf Stream uses J&L as their West Coast authorized factory repair center. I will keep you posted on our progress.

Best of Luck,
Ed

[David Bott]

Ok, Still happy with the coach itself as a floor plan and what have you. Still happy with the people at GS. Just not happy that we are STILL HERE another morning for them to "finish up".

The coach came back to us last night at 7:00PM. Yes, 7:00PM and it was not complete. They had the coach for over 10 hours.

My wife and I have been living in their lobby for over a week. We really can not go out and explore as we have a 13 year old German Shepard, Tasha, that we can not just leave in the coach as we do not have it. So we are limited as to what we can do. More or less, drive around, get take out food, eat in the car and greet people as they come in the lobby.

To add to my personal misery, I lost my KVH Sat dish last night. I say misery because were we are only 1 over-the-air station can be reached via RV so a Sat dish is a must. Augh!

[David Bott]

FOLLOWUP...

Ok, well, for those of you playing along. It is time for the followup to the above posts.

As many know, Brenda and I had number of issues with our TM to the point of having to bring it to the plant so GS could work on it directly. Well, after almost 2 weeks of being their, our coach is much better shape.

The main issue we were bring the coach in for was the main slide was not coming all the way out on the bottom part. In other words, the inside top was VERY tight and the bottom sides you could put your fingers between. Now, this does not sound like a hard to thing to fix as the bottom just needed to be moved out some with the ram rod threaded shafts. Well, lets just say something did not go quite right. What went wrong? No one would say but if you look at the issues made after that point, it was not hard to figure out in my humble opinion.

3 different people worked on the slide to the point that they called in PowerGear, the maker of the slide unit. All in all, after several adjustments and part changes, including a pulley and a hydraulic rod, the slide was adjusted. However, with one remaining issue. The paint stripes in the rear part of the slide are no longer lined up. The rear end of the slide is down about 1/2 inch and can not be moved up as now it is already at max up extension. GS assures me this will not be an issue with it getting worse in the future. I however remain sure that it will as everything gives over time. It will sag and will not be able to be moved up in the normal way.

So...Most of the time spent at GS was the slide being taken in and out to find out the issue with it. When I say in and out, I mean, the slide was hyper-extended out of the side of the coach. That means that all of he internal wood trim and would have you would need to come off and go back on. This occurred 3 times and mind you that then we had wood issues as they put on differnt wood that was, well, poor. This of course was changed out.

All in all, at GS, we had...

1) Power inverter replaced as the service center in Orlando, where we were at one time, did not have the part needed.

2) The PowerTech Generator repaired as they PowerTech service center in Orlando was not open on Fridays. (Bad power controller) Note...PowerTech was great to deal with. They came out to the plant and did the repair and were very very nice.

3) Master slide fixed to 95% of us being happy with it.

4) Rear bed side slide leak repaired.

5) New master slide topper as the other one stretch and would not tighten.

6) Awning fixed as it was missing a few bushings that would keep the arm inline so it would close.

7) 2 coach batteries replaced as one was leaking.

8 ) Co-Pilot seat fixed as the front of the seat would be crushed in by the foot rest when it went back in.

I am sure I am missing something more...But those are the main things.

Along with the fixes, GS also helped us out with a few upgrades...

1) The front glass doors for the electronics were replaced with doors that had a black metal mesh. (Our design, they made it happen and did a GREAT job.) The issue is that with the glass doors no heat can get out of the electronics area which is not good for the gear used. Even more if you something that makes a lot of heat like a Hi-Def sat box or PVR as the heat can get really bad.

2) They ran an HDMI cable for the bedroom display as their is really no easy way of doing this.

3) They removed and installed a replacement KVH Sat Dome as mine had broke down yet again. (I purchased the dome, they were nice enough to pull off the old one and put the new one on.)

We thank Gulf Stream for going above and beyond with this special support.

Now with that all said....Let me tell you about Gulf Stream....

Brenda and I are happy with our pick of Gulf Stream and the Tour Master over all. Would be buy from them again or recommend them? Yes. The Tour Master coach offered more than any other coach at the time we purchased and you could not beat the price/value/features of the coach. Not sure if the same will be said for the future however seeing how the market is. Gulf Stream stood behind their product and did the service on the coach noting the issues that were made and considering what changes need to be made when they start the Tour Master line again.

They do however still have a number of places that need to improve. One of which is working more with the community that supports them and that will help them grow...The on-line community. It used to be that word of issues and what have you would only get out at rallies and then it was small groups at that. Now with the Internet, words happen at a click of a button and it can help or hurt a companies sales as a great number of people are reached. Look at the number of views of this thread alone and any one can understand that. So they need to work better with the public and support and help the communities IMHO.

After going though this for over a year, Brenda and I have our own ideas for a Tour Master Special Edition that we are going to propose to GS. This is not only based on what has taken place, but also comes about when we had looked at other coaches when we were considering dropping GS. All in all however, we are currently glad we did not.

Brian Shea, Mark, Dave, Cindy and the rest of the staff at GS, thank you for helping, and even more, listening to our concerns. When someone purchases something of this price tag, it is not a small purchase and your commitment goes a long way.

Special Regards,