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Old 03-28-2021, 06:09 PM   #1
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Default need engine fuse and solenoid guide 2004 GS Ultra Supreme

The unit has a new battery and new starter, but won't turn over. I was able to start it by crossing the leads on the starter, so I think I have a bad solenoid. I don't know what fuses or solenoids are what and I have on guide/diagram with the specifics. Can someone help me out please?
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Old 03-29-2021, 08:45 AM   #2
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There may be some interlocks/safety switches between your ignition switch and the starter motor. Check that your slides are in, and your parking brake is set, etc.


Wiring diagrams for these coaches are hard to come by --maybe a forum member here with the same year and model will chime in with more specifics...


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Old 03-29-2021, 05:51 PM   #3
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so far have replaced the battery, the starter, and today the starter solenoid. No luck so far so tomorrow I'll check all the grounds I can find under the chassis. I'm starting to become discouraged...
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:02 PM   #4
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Stop throwing parts at the problem and let's start troubleshooting. The Ultra Supreme name was applied to both Class A and Class C coaches in 2003, but I cannot find it used for any 2004 models...we need a bit more information on your specific coach. Do you have the 4 digit model number? Typical class A numbers are W8328, W8336, W8353 and W8359 -- all of which had Ford V-10 engines. The class C rigs were also powered by Ford V-10 engines in F-350 and F-450 chassis choices and had models like W6211, W6236, W6304, W6316, and others. WHAT IS YOUR COACH MODEL NUMBER??


Here is a rather generic diagram from an earlier year F-53 but the paths and parts involved are likely similar:



Note that the solenoid is driven by a 'starter relay' which in turn is powered only in the Park and Neutral transmission positions when the key is turned to START.


Verify that the fuse shown is good, the transmission switch contacts are good and the relay is working as it should. Unless you find a bad function at one of these, do not replace parts blindly.


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Old 03-29-2021, 07:27 PM   #5
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the model number of our coach is W8359 with the Ford V10 engine.
as for checking the relay switch, I'm not sure where that is? I can check the fuses individually, although I don't have a map of what is what, and I have fuses in 3 locations in the Rv. There are some in the engine bay, at the left foot of the driver, and in a bay door behind the driver and I have no idea what fuse if for what.
Other than that, I can tell you with the lights on is that they don't dim at all when you try to start it up in the dark. Not sure if that means anything or not. Thanks for your efforts in helping me, life always seems to teach me new and exciting things as years go by...
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Old 03-29-2021, 08:31 PM   #6
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OK -- Your coach is the model W8359 on the Ford V-10 RV chassis. Since the headlights do not dim when you attempt ot crank the engine -- there is an open circuit someplace, most likely a blown fuse or a bad rely.



The fuse should be in the engine compartment, or perhaps someplace under the dash. The function of each fuse should be on the cover of the fuse block. This fuse block may also contain several relays. It may look like this, where relay 307 is the starter relay, fuse 31 is the 15 amp relay fuse, and fuse 113 is a 30 amp starter fuse. I have not been able to confirm these apply direct to your particular coach but will keep looking...


Chuck





ford engine fuse panel.jpg
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File Type: png W8359.png (628.2 KB, 4 views)
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Old 03-30-2021, 08:09 AM   #7
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I'll be looking over all the fuses I can find to check them out. I'll also be double checking all the grounds to the frame. Your help is greatly appreciated Chuck
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Old 03-30-2021, 08:53 AM   #8
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Found this F53 specific RV chassis fuse block mapping...it is from a 2015 model but may be more applicable than the truck map I posted earlier.


Don't forget the relay is the most likely failed component, not the associated fuse...


If possible, take a picture of your actual fuse block and post here -- that may help. The fuse panel under the dash to the left of the pedals is most likely just running lights, etc and does not have any starter related fuses or relays. The panel you want is in the engine compartment.



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Old 03-30-2021, 09:15 AM   #9
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There is a video here https://youtu.be/Z5pNcl23Pc8 that may help locating these fuse blocks. Here is a still from that video. The rig pictured is a 1997 F53, but is likely typical...


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Old 03-30-2021, 06:58 PM   #10
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checked all fuses throughout the RV, found 3 bad, replaced, but of course none of them had to do with the no start problem. found the relay that should start the engine and it clicks, so I figured it was good. With a test light I have power to the bigger side of the starter but none on the small side either switched on or off at the ignition.
Have included a pic of the chassis fuse box and believe the black relay in the middle of the box near the small white ones is the correct one.

fuse box.jpg

still not getting a cranking situation, and oh yes, the auxillary starter solenoid clicks when attempting to start.

another frustrating day with no results
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Old 03-30-2021, 09:36 PM   #11
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Torino,



That picture is tiny, about 153 x 206 pixels -- can you post a much larger file? Do you have labels on what relay is what and which fuse is which for this particular fuse/relay block??


When you say "side of the starter" are you talking about the starter mounted solenoid which is the plunger driven high current contacts?? This is what is shown in my earlier schematic, and repeated below.




I will try again to match your system to some more directly relevant information if you can get me the larger relay panel picture and the mapping. Thanks for veing patient...


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File Type: jpg starter motor with solenoid.jpg (18.3 KB, 4 views)
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Old 03-31-2021, 04:01 AM   #12
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Chuck,

I'll snap a larger pic later today, but I don't know the mapping of the fuses and relays, that's one of the problems with my knowledge of the vehicle.
I am referencing the starter solenoid when I talk about the power to the larger post and no power to the smaller post. I believe the smaller post should have power when the key is turned to the run position (cranking) but there is none.
I'm not as technical in my language/terms so I apologize for that, but certainly do appreciate all your help.
Thanks,
Mark
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Old 03-31-2021, 09:41 AM   #13
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Mark,


No worries about the terminology, we will work through it. A larger picture of the fuse and relay block will at least let us see the labels on each component, fuse values, etc. There may also be a molded-in set of labels on the cover of the fuse block, either inside or outside, so be sure to photograph that as well.


The relay may still be the issue, even though it is heard/felt to be clicking when you turn the ignition key to the START position -- it could be actuating but the internal contacts could be failing due to being corroded or burned from high currents. It is these contacts that provide a path to supply voltage to the solenoid coil (the smaller connection on the starter mounted solenoid.)


More later...


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Old 03-31-2021, 10:43 AM   #14
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Mark,


Here is a rather long thread that may be of some relevance... lots of struggling here as well
https://forums.trailerlife.com/index...g/1/page/1.cfm

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Old 03-31-2021, 02:53 PM   #15
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Good news on the home front this afternoon. I found a wire coming from the aux starter solenoid that felt weak, like it was fried or compromised in some way, so I cut out a section and replaced it with a comparable one and when I went to bolt it back onto the solenoid I broke a terminal and had to replace that as well. As luck would have it, I hooked the battery back up and it started! Woohoo!!
Problem solved, and great thanks to you for the legwork you did to try to help me. It is greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-31-2021, 03:17 PM   #16
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Mark,


Glad you got it all sorted out!! If the section of wire that was damaged showed signs of heat related failure...keep a watch for any reassurance.


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Old 03-31-2021, 03:20 PM   #17
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Will do sir, thanks again!
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Old 04-04-2021, 10:00 AM   #18
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I am just observing this dialogue and wish to say 3 cheers for Chuck V for his perseverance and gracious sharing of his knowledge in helping this fellow out with a tricky problem. Nice to see!
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