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Old 09-24-2013, 12:50 PM   #1
03heritagerider
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Default Hydraulic leak

'03 Friendship Quattro 330 Cat. Two hydraulic slides and two electric slides

I think I have a hydraulic leak. I retracted one of the hydraulic slides and found a puddle under the coach. The liquid is red.

I have attached two photos of the line going into what appears to be the bottom of the engine block (Not very well versed in mechanical terms, so bear with me).

It appears to be an elbow similar to a plumbing connection. Is this something I can fix myself. What do the hydraulics operate other than the slides and the jacks?

Both photos were taken from the passenger's side. The yellow arrow points to the area leaking.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mh001.jpg (38.6 KB, 4643 views)
File Type: jpg mh002.jpg (34.7 KB, 4642 views)
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:40 PM   #2
GStream40
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

The hydrualics for your slides/jacks is not connected to your engine at any point. The hydraulic pump for your slides/jacks should be located in the storage compartment just in front of your fresh water tank OR located in the front of the MH to the left of
the generator.

Looking at the picture I can't tell exactly what area your are taking a picture of but I believe it looks like it is in the rear of the coach not far from the air dryer. Could you possibly be looking at the lines for the
transmision? The transmission fluid is red/pink looking.

Ron
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #3
03heritagerider
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Ron,

I was under the coach removing a corroded piece of tail pipe when I saw the stain on the driveway. The photo was taken from behind the rear wheels on the passenger side. When I went to NAPA for the tail pipe, I asked the guy. He wasn't sure what he was looking at either, but said if I take the line off, they can make me a new one with new fittings. Is that something I want to do?

He also suggested I try using some stop leak if it's a small leak but didn't know if it was the hydraulic line, the tranny or the power steering.

Here's a wider shot of the area shown in the previous photos.

It's getting dark now so I'll have to check the tranny fluid in the morning to see if it's down. I can't run the rig until I get the exhaust put back together tomorrow, but a cold check of the transmission dip stick reads full.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mh003.jpg (28.5 KB, 4628 views)
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:55 PM   #4
RayChez1
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Those two hydraulic lines are from the transmission going to the cooler on the radiator. I think I would go to a place where they specialize on hydraulic lines to replace either of those hoses. They are long and heavy duty. You definitely do not want to patch it up with any kind of glue or what ever he suggested. And I sure would not want to damage the transmission.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:37 PM   #5
GStream40
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

I agree with Ray that those are tranmission lines going to the radiator cooler and also I would never put any knid of sealer in the transmission. If it is the line leaking then I would do as Ray suggested because
they are very heavy duty lines.

Transmission fluid leaks in the lines are the main reason for MH diesel pusher fires in the engine compartment when tranny fluid gets on the hot exhaust.

Ron
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:38 AM   #6
03heritagerider
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Thank you gentlemen!

The leak seems to be at the fitting, specifically, where the hose meets the fitting. Where it goes into the transmission is dry and an inch on the other side of the fitting is dry.

Next question... The line looks like it's easy to reach, so is it something I can take off and replace myself? Are simple wrenches the only tools needed?

The guy at NAPA said they can make the hoses with new fittings if I bring in the old one, or I can go to a truck dealer to get one made.

My concern now is, if I run the rig and the fluid is leaking, will I cause damage to the transmission by driving it?
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

If you feel that you can remove it and have the tools to do so, then I would do it myself. The hose is a high pressure hydraulic hose and any shop that has the machine to make them should be able to do so.
I believe that most NAPA parts stores have the hose machine to make them.

Just be ready to catch the transmission fluid that will flow out. A complete fill of the Allison tranny in our MH's holds almost 5 gallons of fluid. I don't know if you have Transynd Transmisson fluid or not,
I do in mine that I had installed when they changed my filters and fluid, but it costs almost $30.00 a gallon

If you decide to take it to a shop to make the repair, as long as you make sure that the transmission has plenty of fluid and it does not leak to the point that it might spray onto the exhaust and catch fire, THEN
you should be okay.

Sometimes these hoses leak when the fluid is cold, but then when it gets hot/warm the fittings/hoses swell and they stop leaking while they are warmed up, but other times when they get pressure on them
they leak even more.

I replaced many of these hoses when I worked, I was a Millwright for 15 years and a Maintenance Supervisor for 16 1/2 years in a steel mill, so I have a bit of experience with high pressure lines.

One other thing, make sure you use a backup wrench to put on the fitting that the hose "nut" screws onto so that you do not damage what the fitting screws into. The hose "nuts" can be quite tight requiring a
lot of power/leverage to break them loose.

Good Luck, Ron
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:35 AM   #8
03heritagerider
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Thanks Ron,

Next question....If I catch the fluid, can it or should it be re-used? Or should I, or must I replace it with new?
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:51 AM   #9
RayChez1
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

I crawled under my coach to look at those hoses and it seems easy enough to take off on the transmission end, but on the other end it seems like it would be hard to get to on my coach. If you plan on replacing the hose yourself, I would do it right where it is at. You might want to make a call to the Allison company and ask how much oil they predict you would lose after you loosen and remove the hose. It seems like the hoses attach about half way up on the transmission, so maybe there won't be much lose of fluid. I would not use the collected fluid.

Now if the leak is not too bad and you do not have to drive very far to get a shop to repair it, then I think I would drive it to the shop, but check the fluid level before you drive off to make sure you have not lost much fluid already.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:26 PM   #10
GStream40
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03heritagerider
Thanks Ron,

Next question....If I catch the fluid, can it or should it be re-used? Or should I, or must I replace it with new?
I would probably replace the fluid with new if it was me, mainly because it is going to be near impossible not to contaminate it with dirt. You sure don't want dirt put into your transmission.

Ron
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:44 PM   #11
03heritagerider
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Thanks again guys.

I'm going to get under there on Friday and see if I can get the lines off myself. Found a couple of places close that will make the lines with new fittings. Unfortunately, no place close to take the rig. I don't want to risk more damage or a fire by driving it to a repair shop.

I'll let you know how things work out.

Fingers crossed!
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Update on the leaking hose...

Conditions being what they are, I was unable to get under the coach until this morning to attempt to remove the hose (see earlier posts). I was, however; able to spray the fittings with PB Blaster last week.

This morning, I grabbed my work light, a handful of wrenches, a pry bar and a bucket.

Surprisingly, the first fitting (toward the rear of the coach) came off with just a little muscle. I put a 5 gallon bucket beneath it to catch what came out. Another surprise, it was probably less than a quart.

I then moved to the other end of the hose (the side that was leaking). This one was on a bit tighter, but a few taps with a hammer and it was loose. Another surprise...nothing came out.

I examined the other hose that ran along side, and it looked pretty corroded as well, but I decided to leave it in place for the moment, at least until I tried to get a replacement for the one I had removed.

I called a couple of parts stores, and the only one locally that said they may be able to help was NAPA. I took the hose in and they said they did not have the fittings and could not help me. They suggested a truck dealer or Parker-Store/Ritter Engineering, which was closer to home than the NAPA.

He looked at the hose and said "no problem". He had the straight end fitting, but he did not have the fitting with the 90° elbow. He said he would order it and have it by Tuesday. I told him to order another one and I would bring the other hose in and have it replaced as well. He said to just bring in the other one when I come back and I can wait for him to make it for me in about 10 minutes.

I now only have one question. I am assuming that from the previous posts, these lines are from/to the transmission. Should I have expected more fluid to drain when the hose was removed? Keep in mind the other hose is still on and a cold check of the tranny dip stick shows full (I did not want to run the engine until the leak was fixed).
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:50 PM   #13
RayChez1
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

As long as the engine is not running there should be no pressure. So the only fluid you are going to lose should be what is in the hoses. But to make sure I would call either Freightliner at Gaffney and ask them. Just have your serial number and them people are fantastic. They have answered many questions for me when I have called about what my axle ratings were front and back.

Now if you have a Spartan, then I do not know much about them.

And if it was me and the other hose is not leaking, I would just leave it alone. Unless it is really bad where you think it is going to give you problems. But if it is just a little rusty, I would just clean them up and spray them with something to stop the corrosion. Sometimes we try to do too much and end up breaking something else.
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

I would have to agree with Ray, if it isn't leaking or doesn't look that badly rusted after you clean it up, then I wouldn't mess with changing it. I would just just spray it with some rust protection.

Glad you were able to remove the leaking hose/fittings with little problem.

Ron
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:22 PM   #15
03heritagerider
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Ray & Ron,

Thanks for the advice. Over the past few years on this forum, you guys have made it possible for me to try (and succeed) at repairs I would have never thought of doing myself. Aside from the cost savings, it's quite the feeling of accomplishment!

Some day I hope to meet you guys on the road!

Thanks again.

Mike
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

Hey guys,

I'm sorry I did not update you sooner, but we were away on vacation (had to fly there...I HATE flying, but can't take the RV to the Caribbean).

Anyway, the new line went on easily. I also took your advice and left the other line alone.

It seems that the only fluid lost was what was in the line, because it only took about a quart to refill. The rig hasn't moved in a few months and the leak was discovered after doing my monthly "let it run" session. So, I have to assume that it leaked after the shut down.

Anyway, I though it "might" be a good idea (You guys are boosting my mechanical confidence) to change the tranny fluid and filter. Is this something I can do (I changed the engine oil and filter myself the last two times)...or is this something better left to the professionals. Where is the filter and drain plug?

And thanks again for all the guidance!
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

I have the 3000 transmission on my Scenic Cruiser and it was very easy when I changed it. I ordered the two gold filters on the internet from DeFeo Allison parts. Bought the dextran III from WalMart, put a pan to collect the fluid, removed the plug at the bottom of the transmission. Removed the two filter covers at the bottom of the transmission, collect small amount of fluid off the filters and install the filters. Make sure you install the gaskets that come with the filters. Reapply the drain cap, make sure when applying the screws back around the filter cap that you apply pressure even all around, so as not to have more pressure on one screw then the other. Then follow the instructions on your manual on adding the fluid back in. After you have added the amount your manual instructs you, then you start the engine and you follow the instructions which will appear on your shifter window. It will tell you if you need to add more or if you are full. For me it was fairly easy.

Good luck!
Ray
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: Hydraulic leak

I took the easy way out and took the coach to Western Branch Diesel, a Allison service center and had them change the fluid and filters. I had Transynd installed.
I believe it costs around $250.00 total if my memory serves me right.

Ron
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