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Old 04-09-2008, 09:34 AM   #1
David Bott
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Default 2008 Gulf Steam Tour Master - Right choice?

Hi All...

My wife and I are new 2008 TM owners. Our first RV and we went big. I guess the question is, and this is of course one sided, is did we make the right choice? We were also looking at the Revolution and are wondering if we went the wrong way now. We have reasons for thinking this way and they all have to do with the quality control.

I guess maybe we have remorse, maybe we all have at one time, but for a new RV, boy was the quality control out the door. We are finding so many things right down to stripped screw heads to even screws just laying around. Some right though the wall sticking out the other side. We are very concerned and contacted GS Monday and still waiting for answers.

Here was our first trip. Complete with two stops at tire shops to try to fix wheel balance. http://rv.bott.net

We need some reassure here! AUGH!!!!!

David
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:15 PM   #2
David Bott
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Well the GS customer service rep is very nice, and we are going to be working though the issues with the RV. So that is good news.

However, it does not help the fact of a new RV with so many issues. Here are just a few that should never have left the plant....

Top kitchen drawers would not open for the top would hit the hinge. They actually had to sand down the side of the drawer. (BTW...Great that the drawer can hot the door in the first place. It makes for some nice marks in it.)

The pantry would not slide out as the bottom shelf was put in to low and it also then would hit the bottom mount and thus could not slide out. (What, no once checks these things?)

Screw to hold a wall in place was right though the wall coming out about 1/3 of an inch. How did we find it? Only took one catch of a leg. (BTW...3 of them in total)

Center channel speaker was not hooked up and was damaged when put in to the point of the speaker being ripped! My guess is the person who did the damage left it unhooked so you could not hear the issue. Hello...Not being on would also make you look. BUT IT WAS STILL PUT IN!!!! (BTW...Surround sound in an RV is a nice idea, but really does not work when the screen is not centered with the center speaker. Even worse when you use the pop up set in the living area )

The driver seat had very little back support to the point that the leather was just loose. Arm rests were also not right with one even lower than the other.

We found no less that 16 various screws laying around. Two in the couch!

Cargo area has paint on the rails that did not take, has come off, and is now rusting. Note, we have not even used the area.

Speaking of the cargo area, we had the fresh water take empty out into it as the drain line was too tight and when we went over a mound entering a park, it pulled right out of the bottom of the tank when the rig flexed. All the water drained into the basement. Good thing we hand noting in it.

We had two of the basement doors open on us while driving even though locked. The hinge was not set right and when the RV moved or twisted just right, it was enough for it to open. Two doors both separate times! One opened upward (The inverter area) and the other outward, cargo area.

We STILL have a tire balance issue. Brake Drum? Tires?

All in all their are more items, but just trying to find out if this is something to expect from any new RV or did Gulf Stream really drop the ball on this rig? Was it built the day before a holiday? Was their a strike going on? No idea. But what we do know is we are not impressed so far with the quality control. It makes us fearful of the future.

We are thankful however that the CSR is supportive and helpful, but that does not excuse what we are going though. We should be enjoying ourselves, yet we feel put out for the RV now needs to go into a ship to start repairs. How long? No idea.

So, is this normal? Could we have had the same issues with another line? (I am guessing yes.) But still....Who is responsible for the quality? When you spend money like this, you really would think you would have something that someone took pride in building. We were sold on the Tour Master over the Revolution based on features it had. It also had a nicer price point, but does that now come at a cost???

Thoughts? Help? Anyone?

Thank you.
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:22 PM   #3
lockdoc
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David-

It is a bit late to ask if you made the right choice but here is what I know: Sit down for this one as it is good........ALL rv's will have some QC issues. None are exempt from it although some dealers do a better job than others to get it ready for you!

IMHO your dealer let you down! The way the industry works is the mfg turns out the product as well as they are equiped for and then they ship to dealers to do the final walk through fux ups that they missed. It is like the dealers are the finish carpenters to building a home....their area of responsibility is to make it not only fully workable but pretty too.

Give the dealer a chance to make it right as they dropped the ball in missing the things you mentioned.

It is not right....but that is the system most rv mfgs have in place. I have seen similar issues in my FIL's former coaches: Winnebago Elandin, Newmar Dutch Star and now Monaco Knight!
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:13 PM   #4
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Listen to lockdoc. It is my experience and I have even been told this by the dealer that the QC and finish out items are left to the dealer. I have heard that as much as 10-15% of the final work can be finished upon delivery. It is sad that they work that way but my dealership handles Winnebago, Tiffin, Damon, and Gulf Stream and all are the same way.

After finding this was the case with the first coach we owned (Four Winds Fun Mover), I selected a dealership less than a mile from my house to buy my Gulf Stream SuperNova. Although I have not had the issues you noted, the few items I have had have been repaired to my satisfaction and I can check in on the progress daily by walking up to the dealership.

Good luck with your adventure and remember, these things are a combination of your car/truck and your house. You probably did not have problems with your vehicle but if you have ever built a house (I have built 3), the punch list can be pages. Just work through it and you will suddenly have memories and stories to share while everyone tells their RV stories around a campfire. I promise, everyone has them.



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Old 04-09-2008, 11:52 PM   #5
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We all have a lot of choices in RV's nowdays. I went through a similar contortion, did I choose correctly.
My friends own a Revolution, one an Alfa Gold, several Newmars from the Dutch Star to the Essex.
All have had their day in repairs, breakdowns, and quality issues. Overall, I'd venture that Newmar is better at quality.
But, our TM has been marvelous. Give it a year, get the bugs out, then watch out because you will find yourself cruising all over the place, having fun.
So, IMHO you chose correctly.
Safe travels,
Rick



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Old 04-10-2008, 12:25 AM   #6
David Bott
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Hello All...

Ok, so I have learned that the RV industry is, well, strange. After all, they build the RV, the dealer sells it. I would expect that the build would be something of pride and not left to the dealer. I would expect the dealer to do a final clean up before delivery, but would not have expected what I have found thus far.

But seeing you all, who have had MUCH MORE experience than I at this, say this is the way it is, then so be it. (yes, weird as it may be. )

And Lockdoc..."It is a bit late to ask if you made the right choice" LOL, you are so right.

I have also noticed one other thing now that we have stopped at a few places. I have yet yo see another Tour Master. But I will say that we are the largest thing I have ever seen come down the road in upstate NY.

Also, correct, I should have maybe bought at home. But where I live is not the best RV market as you may guess. (As mentioned, upstate NY) Camping World is as big as it gets and they do not carry Gulf Stream, for as they said, "Too many issues". I was kind of taken back by that but thought it must have been something else busniess related.

I ended up looking around, I found a used Revolution here, but as I continued my search came across the Tour Master. It was in Jacksonville, FL at Dick Gores RV World. A 2008 pre-emission M330 T40B. It so happened we were going to Orlando in two days for a trade show. So we rented a car and headed to Jacksonville to see it and only spent one day at the show vs 2. After seeing it I could not find a way to consider the money they wanted for the 2006 Rev. So we bought the TM. Fly back two weeks later and here we are. BTW...Got 8.7 MPG on the way home.

So their you have it. REALLY new to this stuff. Had NO CLUE about how this worked, but do now. BUT I still do blame the factory for the fresh water drain line being to tight, the speaker that should NEVER have been put in, and some other things that really should have no excuse. (IE, the opening basement doors! Heck, thats a safety thing!)

So we are off on our adventure.

(Side note...Thanks GS for the HD sets, but you wired the RV all COMPOSITE!!!! It can not carry HD from say a Blu-ray player or even a Hi-def sat box. Even the DVD system you have in it can do COMPONENT video, but you did not run any wires for it. Even the switch box can do component video, but you did not run it. You only ran Composite video and left and right audio. Now how am I to run the correct wires or even a SINGLE HDMI cable???? BTW....I will be installing a front projector that will project onto the privacy screen. It is great that it just drops down and is white!!! Then even the surround sound will be correctly placed. )
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:09 PM   #7
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And we thought we were the only ones with quality control issues.... In our 2008 Independence, the living room slide was not adjusted correctly, so the first time we opened it up, it scraped the linoleum floor in two places! It's not so much the laundry list of repairs/adjustments that have to be made, it's the long, long wait to hear from Gulf Stream as to how they want us to proceed. (The pull-out couch that was supposed to come with it was substituted with a jackknife couch. Still waiting for the resolution on that one,)
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:33 PM   #8
GStream40
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David,

I had to laugh when I read about you wondered if you made the right choice of the Revolution or the TM when you stated that cargo doors came open on your TM.
Last year when the DW and I test drove a Revolution at Lazy Days I turned onto I-4 with the Revolution and a compartment door came flying open.
The salesmen stated that it probably needed the latch adjusted when I pulled over and he jumped out to close it.

It is true but sad that the RV industry is in the shape it is in and that we all put up with it.

Ron
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:57 AM   #9
David Bott
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Ron:

I guess it is the state of the industry, you are right.

I am really amazed it is like this to say the least. If I ran my business like this, it would surely fail. I would think that someone would care to take PRIDE IN WHAT THEY BUILD. Even more so when you are talking about something of this value. (Then again, people should take pride in what they do in any regard.) Doors opening SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN! This is 100% a safety issue.

Elise:

Well we dropped off the rig yesterday to have the list started. The rep at the shop said..."Well, we will get started on this as soon as we get the OK from Gulf Stream. However, please be aware that it could be several, several days before we hear from them." Again, if this is the case, it is 100% uncalled for. But we will see for I had been working with the GS CSR and sending photos to her before I brought it in. She said she was already setting up the OK's. I really hope this happens.

David
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:01 PM   #10
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Tell your shop to use email with GS, it seems to get faster response than a phone call to them for some reason.



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Old 04-11-2008, 11:44 PM   #11
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"The driver seat had very little back support to the point that the leather was just loose. Arm rests were also not right with one even lower than the other. "

My right side is higher than the left. Why is that?
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:19 AM   #12
David Bott
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"My right side is higher than the left. Why is that?"

No idea. Mine were both down toughing the seat more or less not usable at all for an arm rest. Yet the other set was just fine.

Who made these seats anyway. Can not find a tag on them that really says. (Reminder... Tour Master T40B)
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:19 PM   #13
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Mine were made by flexsteel.
Seem to be great quality. But, both are the 6 way electric adjustable.
Perhaps there are different manufacturers based on the seat's functions.
Safe travels
Rick



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Old 04-12-2008, 11:59 PM   #14
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Mine is Flexsteel as well.
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:55 AM   #15
David Bott
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Yes, 6 way adjust on ours also. Even a foot rest for my wife.

No where on it can I find FlexSteel. Not even on the tag that I needed to find and send to GS. (They were not sure either LOL) They said that sometimes they need to change manufactures as products run low so they need to get them somewhere else. But they still were not even sure from the tag I sent them.
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:25 AM   #16
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Let us know how things progress through GS. We are planning on being at the Rally this June, and will look at the seats if we get a chance.
Should be an eye-opener to actually see the factory and meet the staff.



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Old 04-13-2008, 08:24 PM   #17
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Rick,
I feel sure that you will get a chance to look at the seats at the
Back Home Rally. I also think it might be an eye opener. The factory tour is nice and most of the staff are very helpful. But, most of all I think you will have a great time and get to meet some great owners of Gulf Streams. We have gone for many years and feel like we really are going home.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:03 AM   #18
David Bott
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Yes, very much looking to go to the rally. Just trying to get them to call us back about the GS Club so we can sign up. As a new owner is comes with a 1 year membership if I recall correctly. Just ca not seem to get this done and sign up before it is too late.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:13 PM   #19
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David,
Contact Jennifer Shaw, membership coordinator at [email protected]. She will be able to take care of you.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:01 AM   #20
David Bott
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Yes, she gave us a call. Not waiting on the welcome packet and then we can get registered for the little get-a-way.

Looking forward to seeing other TM owners as we have not yet seen another one in 6 parks. Looking to hear about their new RV stories as I really am shocked by the QC or lack their of.

Want to stand out, do something others are not doing. Take pride.
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