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Old 04-17-2008, 01:32 PM   #21
vernon07
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Default always the same :)

It has been my learned that dealerships will not typically put a lot of time into final repairs as they are not making money for their time. Once you purchase the unit and make a list of ever item they can go back to the factory and have it covered under the manufacturers warranty. Most dealers run between 90 to 125.00 an hour. As you can see they want to make all the money that they can. I hope that helps a little as well as far as the delivery process.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:58 PM   #22
David Bott
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Well I must say that the time it takes even to get the OK to fix something is very very poor.

Our NEW Tour Master has been at the shop now for a week and 2 days and NO WORK has been done yet on it as they do not have the OK's needed to do said work.

THIS IS A NEW UNIT....IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DELIVERED TO US LIKE THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE FROM GULF STREAM!!!!! (I DO NOT FAULT THE DEALER...I FAULT GULF STREAM.)

Be it the way the industry is does not make it right. Gulf Stream, stand up and be proud of what you make. Be different by actually caring what comes off your line. So far, I have not even gotten a sorry out of GS.

Yeah, yeah, I have heard that it is like this for any manufacture. DO NOT CARE! It should not be plain and simple. Why just be part of the crowd when you can stand out from it???

When a speaker is put in EVEN THOUGH IT IS DAMMGED, that is not right.
When a screw is put though the wall in the wrong place and it comes out the other side, that is not right.
When a cargo door open while driving, that is not right. (Two different doors mind you.)

It goes on and on. We can not wait to get to the Back Home rally so we can actually get to see the GS people that build these and ask where the pride is. Or maybe we just try to get in to see the man himself.

We have not been able to use our new RV at this point.

The best thing so far are the nice people we have met on-line here.
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:30 PM   #23
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David,

You are very frustrated, & I don't blame you. Perhaps an immediate trip to the factory will help you. You are in New York state, so you could make a mini vacation out to Nappanee, IN, camp in the free factory campground, take the factory tour, & most importantly, meet "the man" & perhaps get your unit either run thru the production line (as mine was) or have their on-site service facility do the necessary work.

To assure you get the attention from the factory that you deserve, you need their permission. I wouldn't ask, I'd notify them of your expected arrival date & see what happens. Contact me at [email protected] or PM me for some more detailed specifics.

Oh, I wanted to jump in earlier about your seating discussion. If the armrest does not have a Flexsteel badge on the armrest, it is NOT Flexsteel. GS has been using another (cheaper) manufacturer for a couple of years which in my estimation is plain junk. We were all set to buy our unit based on the previous year's demo (with Flexsteel).... While waiting for the signing we walked into a current year model that had just arrived. We had to cancel our closing until they agreed to install Flexsteel in our coach. They tried to charge us more. The wife & I were furious, & stated so. We packed up our papers & left the dealership offices. They "caught us" in the parking lot to talk a little more. We are probably the only 2005 Sun Voyager coach that got Flexsteel seating. I cannot envision driving for hours in the seats they currently install. My armrests match.
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Old 04-20-2008, 08:26 AM   #24
David Bott
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I am sorry for coming off like this. But I am actually shocked by all this. I know some of you have said this is the normal. But it should not be nor should we be expected to accept it as so.

I do want to go to the factory, but I have no unit at this point. I guess we can go get t back and drive on over. We feel like just leaving on their doorstep with a bill of sale back to GS.

They should be ashamed. Any company/manufacturer should be if they let things like this off the line.

Thus unit was purchased for two reasons. 1) For my wife and I to live life by seeing life. And 2) It was to be used in a national road tour for AVS Forum covering 2 month with 16 stops for meet and greets. (Expected 100+ people at each stop.) You see, I operate the largest on-line audio video forum site (Like this forum for example...But very big). We were going to do an meet and greet learning tour with possible sponsors such as Samsung, Yamaha, Sony, Microsoft, etc in 2009.

I know we will love the traveling, but the rig is an unexpected issue now for us based on we can no longer trust the build quality. More or less now have some fear.

David
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Old 04-20-2008, 04:38 PM   #25
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Here is a case in point.

These two images are of the driver side right by the hot water tank. It is the last part of the molding on that side coming up from the back.

The molding is UP 1/4" vs the middle of the molding and the panel below it does not even fit the coach! According to the repair center I have it at, it is short almost 1/2" under the molding as the panel was not made right. When the molding was put on, it was not put on level which exposed the issue.

IT WAS EVEN PAINTED LIKE THIS!!!!! No one, but on one, said, "hey, this is not right."





And no, the molding did not just move up. It is attached like this and even sealed in place. If you look, if you move the molding down to hide the whole, the paint would no longer line up. (Thus the mention about it even being plaited like this.)
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Old 04-20-2008, 04:49 PM   #26
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Remember I had mentioned the center speaker? Well here it is.



This is the speaker that is in the center of the 3 in the front. Note the bent casing and even the rips in the cone suspension. IT WAS INSTALLED LIKE THIS! Not only was it installed, one lead, the white one, was not even connected! (My guess is so you did not know it was damaged for it would not play.)

This is what I mean. Items like this LEFT THE PLANT! Why or why would someone put in something so clearly damaged? (Guessing here, they did it and did not want to have to tell someone and thus get into trouble.)

If this little thing was like this, what big thing may we be in store for? What is this was a HOT wire for example?
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:06 PM   #27
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We've been away in our TM. No major problems this trip. However, I do agree with David. How do these things leave GS? The issue shouldn't be other manufacturers or the dealers. These are quality control items and someone isn't checking or there isn't a "someone." When we took the plant tour the guide explained the acceptance or "purchase" system from one department to another. Looks like no one really cares if so many problems can get thru the line.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:04 AM   #28
David Bott
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Update...

Well, just so those following along, we still do not have the TM back and it was only last Thursday I heard from the VP of Operations at GS.

Very nice, was very concerned and at this things are not moving forward to getting started on the repairs. I still think we should not be where we are. A NEW coach being fixed. Yes, I have heard it before, this is the way it is. But it should not be. Simple as that. That is my message. I am sure we will get the couch and start to enjoy it, but the message is the same.

I will be at the Home Coming Event if anyone wants to meet and maybe try to come up with a way GS can become of a better company. Lets face it, you can not beat the price point. But that does not mean the build should suffer. It is a pride thing!

I am set to be on the round table talk, but then I read it is not the place to talk about problems. Well, I think it should be. GULF STREAM, you DO NOT want people talking about the issues on an open site like this. I wonder how many people found this site, and this thread, that were considering GS and moved on. I hate to think that would be the case, but what are we to do?

READERS CONSIDERING A GULF STREAM COACH...

You can not go wrong for the price point vs other similar floor plans rigs. That is one reason we went with GS. We also went with GS because our dealer, Dick Gores RV World, who are GREAT GREAT PEOPLE spoke highly of them. The reps I have reached on the phone of GS have been very nice. The VP of operations was very nice. I see no reasons the issues we have will not be taken care of. As you have read, it was about the poor build process that has made this a sour issue for us. Would me buy GS again, yes, based on price and ONLY after looking at the rig closely for build issues.

One other concern now...Even though they list GS service centers, I found out that a service center DOES NOT HAVE TO SERVICE YOUR RIG. I was actually told I was lucky that the dealer in my area is doing the work as a lot of dealers will not service you unless you bought from them. I was shocked by this and lucky I guess. Augh!

David

[edited for corrections.]
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:23 PM   #29
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David:

We plan on being at the back home rally, will look you up then.
How did you post pictures on the site? I made changes to my coach that others have wanted to see, but I was not savvy enough to post a picture.
Hopefully, everything will get fixed, and you'll travel long and far in the TM.

As for the "factory" issue, you are correct. No one can argue that the coaches should leave the factory with few, if any, defects. Reality, however, it just doe not happen. Not even with new cars or even new houses.

One way to help correct this is, IMHO, is to get the problem in front of the person empowered to change the system. Me thinks you've done that.



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Old 04-29-2008, 10:17 AM   #30
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Hi...

I have not seen many cars like that. Homes, sure as their are always pick lists. But this is on a line. Different than home building IMHO. The issues we have run into should not have come off the line. I should have the use of our coach, but do not. In fact I was just told today that it will be at least 2 more weeks before I may get the coach back.

As far as images. You need to put the images on a web server somewhere and then make call to that image using the [img ] tag. Most ISP's offer some space on a server for it's users. You make the call to the image like this in a post...

[img ]http://www.SITENAME.com/IMAGE_NAME[/img ]

...but remove the space in I added in the brackets. Hope this may help.
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:49 AM   #31
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Thank you, I'll try posting an image to a web site and copy it to the message.
As for cars, I meant that some defects are so glaring that anyone looking at it should have stopped that vehicle in production and recycled it.
Hope all works out for you with the coach.



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Old 05-02-2008, 09:14 AM   #32
David Bott
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In regards to image posting...Here is a great reference on our site about it....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=853110
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:07 PM   #33
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Thank you David. I will try the process.



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Old 05-03-2008, 09:07 AM   #34
David Bott
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Update...

At this point all the OK's have been granted to the service center and work has begone. I am still about 1.5 weeks away from having the coach back.

But at least it has once again turned cold in upstate NY.


Seat Update...Found out the seats were made by Scope (if that is right.)
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:05 AM   #35
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Update 2....

Just to follow up, NO PARTS have yet been received to the service center per an e-mail received on Friday from the service center. Note the date of the above post when we were told all was approved. Yet no parts.

I must say, I am just amazed. Yes, great value point, but I am sorry, there is NO EXCUSE FOR ANY COMPANY not to take care of the customer. Even more so after it was approved for service.

I still stay that Gulf Stream could capture the market based on price point, but service and support needs to be a PRIORITY. Customer service goes a long way. Actually the longest when it comes to repeat sales and referrals.

(Note, called into my GS Rep on Friday, no return call.)


Needless to say this...(From the GS site)



...is more or less meaningless.

How long ago did I start this thread (4/9)? We STILL do not have our NEW coach.
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:15 PM   #36
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David, check your PM, I left you one.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:46 AM   #37
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Thanks for the PM note.

Just yet another update...Maybe, maybe, will have our coach back mid next week. Still waiting one some items. One of which is a simple DECAL!!!! How hard is that to send out?????

I would have really liked this thread to go a better direction as I had high hopes for the coach we bought. We still love the floor plan and some of the items used to make the coach, but it is the build that is the issue here. It is the worker not taking any pride in what they do and the company not caring to look into correcting it. (So it seems)

Reminder...CARGO DOORS SHOULD NOT OPEN WHILE DRIVING WHEN THEY ARE LOCKED (or even unlocked but latched)! Get my point about someone not caring enough to check alignment of something they installed. You know, if an accident would have occurred based on the door opening, who would be looked at for a major player in a lawsuit? Hello Gulf Stream, WAKE UP and check your people before something does happen.

Sorry, just frustrated. I am sure once we get it back we will start to enjoy our travels. But at this point we will alway be concerned is a screw was not put though something it should not have been.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:46 AM   #38
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Yet another update...

All orders parts are still not in. Still missing the driver seat and a decal. I can understand the driver seat, which I was told was on the way, but I can not understand the decal.

Get the order, walk over, pull one off the shelf, send it out. It was ordered two weeks ago.

Gulf Stream can WIN this market in every way. They use fine items and quality items in the coach, but they fail in the labor end of it being installed and with follow up customer service issues.

The first issue can be helped some, but here in the US, people seems to have lost pride in what they do. It also may come down to the pay rates and working/training conditions. But it can be resolved.

The section part FOR SURE can be corrected and is the MOST IMPORTANT part of ANY busniess. Service of the customer. This goes the longest way in not only free advertising, but keeping a customer.

GULF STREAM: Look around...This is not the old days when they only way people compared notes was at the camp grounds. It is the day of INSTANT feedback. You want POSITIVE items and people defending you on-line. As such, customer service is the #1 thing. You drop the ball, people will know about it and it WILL impact future sales. Lets impact those sales in an upward motion and not down. You have the power to do so. Just take care of the customer.

For me, over one month now without my NEW 2008 coach. Take a look at this thread count...it is the largest one on the site. Why? Because people looking to purchase GS are reading. As such, not a good read other than the reasons I selected GS.

GET OUT OF THE OLD WAYS TO SUCCEED!!!

Thanks

(edited to fix typos)
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:49 AM   #39
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I think it will take a flushing at the very pinnacle of GS leadership for this paradigm to ever change. When dealing with old-school industries, sometimes the old-school senior management sticks around far too long. This has happened in the auto industry of America as well and is only now beginning to show signs of change.

the fact that this is a private company also makes them less prone to want to change since they do not have to answer to the shareholders who if this was a public company would be reading these posts, looking at the business growth and market share and putting 2+2 together and then demanding change. Not the case here...its a family business.

After years of this site, if they haven't understood the internet communication and customer feedback movement yet, i doubt the current management ever will.

The first signs of them understanding it will be them creating an Internet Communications position in their marketing department that is the Voice of Gulfstream online (and offline) and the conduit for information from the factory. This person would have an account on this site and be there as an advocate for the consumer inside Gulf Stream as well. They would have the same autonomy as a IA department in the police. Smart companies have moved this direction. But, they must stomach the airing of dirty laundry (to an extent) and sometimes NOT have all the right answers. In the end, this is OK, because even us demanding consumers realize that companies are made up of people, who are fallible, its how they account for their faults and attempt to turn things around that we will remember ultimately

Once again, Gulf Stream, I hope you listen to me...I know what I am talking about (we on this site know)...I have been online and in business on the internet for 13 years and this is my day job (not this site, but rather I have a senior leadership position in a company whose business building the best tools and services for helping companies capitalize on the business of customer and employee engagement).

Let US help GS...
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:02 PM   #40
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So how do we help GS? Charlie
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